Touched by Venom Part Ten

[pangolin20]

theepistler wrote in antishurtugal, 2017-05-31 00:57:00

MOOD: cranky
MUSIC: Metric - Wedding Plans

Touched By Venom: Part Ten

Part Ten: My Dragon Drug Hell

So Zarq and KZ leave the convent, leaving everyone else behind. Unfortunately this includes Beauty, who has suddenly stopped having a brain and thinks that if she stays behind she won’t be put to death. Even though she hates it at the convent and should be more than happy to have an excuse to leave.

Either way, this character will never appear again and we’ll remain stuck with stupid Zarq.

Yellow Face (what, she’s Zarq’s Wise Old Mentor now and Zarq still won’t call her by her actual name?) gives her a bag of dragon venom to take with her and warns her that other users will recognise her by her eyes, even so far as knowing exactly how much she’s used and that she’s also taken the stuff up the spout.

I have no idea how this actually works. So far all we’ve learned is that venom addicts have a weird, fixed look in their eyes, the same way that dragons do.

Obviously it’s Magic! *jazz hands*

Zarq temporarily grows a spine and suggests using Ghost Mum as a weapon against the eeevil temple auditors, saying they should stand and fight. Yellow Face shoots this notion down, saying it’s impossible to fight the entire ruling class (boo!) and Zarq should just get rid of the haunt (uh, how?) or it’ll rule her entire life. In typical Wise Old Mentor fashion she offers up the following advice:

‘Don’t burn what you would destroy. You’ll only choke on the ashes.’

Which sounds cool, but is actually pretty meaningless when you think about it for two seconds. She also tells Zarq that she’s educated and good with dragons and has a “bright, quick wit”. (Uh, since when? Evidence, please.) And she should use that to change things instead. Somehow.

So not only are the nuns not going to even try to resist, but they’re not even going to try and run away. Instead they’re just going to sit around uselessly and allow themselves to be slaughtered en masse.

People do not act like this.

I think the real reason they don’t do anything other than give Zarq some money and send her off with her bestie KZ is because the author doesn’t have any further use for them. Most of them were complete nonentities other than Yellow Face, whose only purpose was to be the Wise Old Mentor (if only for a few pages after a random personality transplant). And now the implied hero of this story is setting off on her own journey at last, the Wise Old Mentor can be safely offed. You don’t even get to see her die.

This is what happens when characters are treated as plot devices there to prop up the hero, rather than people who might take issue with being summarily killed off without even trying to save themselves. It’s particularly nonsensical that an independent, intelligent woman like Beauty would suddenly become Miss Passive and Useless, which goes completely against her previous characterisation.

Zarq and KZ (honestly, I wouldn’t mind ditching KZ as well – she’s a cardboard cutout who contributes nothing to the story) trek through the jungle, and of course it’s unpleasant because everything in this book is unpleasant. They eventually emerge into settled land again, where they disguise themselves as servants to the nobility for some reason, and witness dead bodies being thrown to a pack of “gharials”. And no, I don’t know what a gharial is. They’re not described or formally introduced or anything; they’re just dropped in there as if we’re already supposed to know.

NOTE: I decided to Google it and found out that the gharial is a real animal – a critically endangered species of crocodile with very narrow snouts, found in parts of India. Just how likely is it that anyone reading this book would know that? The author doesn’t even bother to indicate that they’re reptiles. In any case, real gharials only eat fish. They don’t eat human corpses. In fact according to Wikipedia their jaws are so narrow that they can’t eat people. Fail.

UPDATE: It turns out the source I looked up was inaccurate - gharials actually can eat human corpses, and throwing the dead to them is a real practice in some parts of the world. Criticism withdrawn.

Blah blah, more travelling. Zarq sees a female dragon being used a a carthorse, and thinks about how she totally gets dragons now. But she has no problem with this one being mutilated and used as a beast of burden. Yet another anachronism rears its ugly head, as the reader is informed that men can’t do the secret dragon sex rite because it’s “anatomically impossible”.

Again, men have erogenous zones too, you complete and total moron.

The two of them end up at the residence of some guy with the title of “daronpu”, and no I don’t know what that word actually means. This is one of those rare occasions when I kind of wish there was a Paolini style index in the back.

Either way the daronpu is one of the more colourful characters in the book – he’s drunk off his arse, his hair looks like someone took a lawn clipper to it, and he calls people “blood blood”. I have absolutely no idea why; he’s the only person who does this. At least he has some charisma, unlike most of the cast.

His home is full of scrolls, and Zarq – who, remember, Totally Loves Reading Now – checks them out and accidentally reveals that she knows how to read. The daronpu, thinking she’s a man, tells her she’s awesome enough to join the Temple but Zarq says no, she’s on her way to become a “makimaki” – in other words an undertaker, like the incestuous gay brothers from earlier in the book.

And speak of the devil, the funeral parlour she goes to is the very same one, and the brothers are still there. Zarq gets all emotional about this and has a bit of a cry before asking if she and Ms Dead Weight, aka KZ, can stay. The brothers accept, because they’re actually halfway decent people.

Shocking, I know. And I gotta say it’s pretty damn sad when it’s a pleasant change to meet a character who isn’t a complete and utter jerk.

That night Zarq has a visit. The haunt of Ghost Mummy has left her body and taken the form of a creepy blue vulture-like bird called a Skykeeper. Surprise surprise, Bird Mum wants Zarq to – what else – find Waivia, her “favourite nestling”. Zarq goes for the venom to make the thing fuck off and leave her alone and the Skykeeper tries to steal it, but Zarq manages to get high and this makes it fly off. I’m not sure why.

I think Bird Mum wants to give this book a plot, ie. Zarq looking for her stupid annoying sister. But out heroine is having none of that, dammit! She’d much rather sit around doing nothing and boring the pants off us.

And speaking of heroin(e), Zarq now gets into the venom hardcore. We get all the same clichés you get from any other drug addiction story – she doesn’t use it for pleasure any more, but because she needs it to function, she marks every single day by how long it is between each fix, she becomes lazy, useless and argumentative, and snarls when prodded about being high. Eventually she goes for the old “accidentally sticking the baby in the oven” Low Point, when she doesn’t tie the baby’s swaddling properly, the kid nearly falls to his death, and Zarq can’t do anything about it because she’s tripping balls so hard even I can’t tell what the hell is going on.

’Scuse me, I gotta go take a hit off the nearest bong. Maybe that will make this book entertaining to read. Or maybe I’ll just start munching on the nearest family sized bag of Cheetos. Either way it’s win-win.

After this nasty incident Zarq decides to give up the venom by slowly weaning herself off it, and has the usual addict thoughts about how she can’t function among those she loves while she’s on Dragon Crack.

Wait, those she loves? Who? Zarq has never shown affection toward KZ on the actual page, and the gay incestuous brothers are basically treated as acquaintances. No indication that she “loves” any of them. Stop telling and start showing, author.

She angsts about never having been in control of her life (because she never bothered to try), then goes on to have clichéd addict thoughts about how she just needs another hit, and trying to make excuses so she doesn’t have to get clean. We then get an equally clichéd scene right out of something like Trainspotting, where she suffers uncontrollable shivering, becomes mostly incoherent, and begs KZ for help in order to get herself that sweet, sweet hit. She then pretends it’s going to be her last, and we all know it isn’t.

KZ, very sensibly, tells her to stay the hell away from her baby. I would.

More clichés follow as Zarq goes through withdrawal. Convulsions, sweating, hallucinations, vomiting – the usual stuff. Apparently it lasts for weeks. She has to be tied up, and does the whole saying absolutely anything she can think of to get them to untie her again thing which addicts do, including offering sexual favours. Fortunately this doesn’t work; I’ve read enough bad sex in this book to last me a lifetime.

During this time she turns sixteen, and also begins having visions of Kratt and the other Evil White Nobles. She starts to feel anger and hate toward them. At least I think that’s what she’s feeling, because the actual text says she grew to “loth” [sic] Kratt’s face.

I swear, I have never read a professionally published novel with this many typos. Where the hell was the damn proofreader? Or the copyeditor, for that matter? This is just inexcusable.

She then goes on to have sexual fantasies about doin’ it with a dragon, because it’s all spiritual and shit. Does anyone know if the Furry community ever got their hands on this thing? Because this is prime NSFW fanfic territory if ever I’ve seen it.

But her hate toward Kratt, the supposed villain, continues to grow, and she starts thinking about how this is all his fault and having fantasies about him dying violently.

It’s taken her 311 pages for her to reach this point.

Want to know how far into the book I am? Less that 50 pages from the end. 311 pages into a 360 page book and now the protagonist starts having a personal goal and working out who the villain is?? REALLY? And what exactly did the previous 310 pages accomplish other than making us cringe on every other paragraph?

How was this even published????

Zarq finally recovers, only to find that KZ and the makimaki brothers (neither of whom have names, by the way. What is with this author and refusing to name half her characters?) have formed their own little family and are very happy together.

Again, this is told, not shown. It really feels as if the author just plain doesn’t care about her characters’ relationships with each other – it’s constantly skipped over like some sort of unimportant minor detail. Unfortunately, this is half the reason why everyone is so very boring and unlikeable. Zarq is sad because they won’t let her play with the baby she loves so very much. Even though she’s never been shown actually playing with the kid at any point. This book’s attempts at characterisation is so utterly failtastic that I just stooped to using the word “failtastic” in public.

Finally Zarq has another encounter with Kratt, completely by accident. She and one of the nameless brothers go on a trip to sell a rare jungle cat for its valuable pelt, and while they’re in town a procession of nobles goes by. One of the servants walking in front, some little boy we don’t know, screws up, and Kratt steps out of his litter and smacks the kid a good one. It’s so melodramatically described that it’s almost an anti-climax when the kid doesn’t die from being socked across the head very hard by a grown man. We all know what the so-called “coward’s punch” has done to perfectly healthy young men, after all. Zarq reflects that the kid could easily be her younger brother. You know – the baby who was given away to the Temple in a couple of paragraphs way back at the beginning of the book, who Zarq hasn’t thought of once since then? And who her mother completely forgot about as well? That kid? Yeah. Why isn’t Bird/Ghost Mum desperate to give him back as well?

Because only Waivia matters, apparently. For some reason. At this point it almost feels like Waivia is secretly the Chosen One, Saviour of the World for all the attention she gets from the narrative. And spoiler alert: Waivia isn’t even in trouble! By this point in Zarq’s story she’s living it up with the nobility, with a handsome husband and a kid of her own. She doesn’t need any help at all, least of all from her loser addict sister. If they ever were reunited Zarq would probably just visit every other month to bum some money and crash on her couch while rattling on about her latest great idea and how she’s gonna make it to the big time any day now, man, and hey, are there any of those Cool Ranch Doritos left, sis?

…I had way too much fun writing that. When a book is this tedious the temptation strikes to write something entertaining to break up the monotony.

That night Zarq finally decides to do something about the situation, grabs a machete and sets out to murder Kratt. I see no way this could possibly go wrong. Nope. Not a chance.

She heads into the city, where she gets directions from some drunk guy who’s just finished puking outside a tavern. Remember, city people are a load of greedy, spoilt drunkards!

Here we get another bit of misplaced world-building, as we’re informed that every bull dragon is named after a gross bodily secretion for good luck. Apparently the bull dragon of this particular Clutch, Re, has a name that means “tears”, and his temple is therefore called the Bastion of Tears. Well, this is all very interesting, but could we please get back to the story? Such as it is.

Zarq sneaks in, happens across someone she thinks is Kratt, and attacks. Turns out it’s actually one of the local noblewomen, and she’s also drunk. Because again, all nobles are spoilt brats who get wasted all the time because they’re so spoilt and self-indulgent. Here we get an amusing parallel to that stupid bit with Roran and the assassin in Inheritance, as once Zarq has slashed the drunk lady across the shoulder with her machete, they end up struggling together “me sprawled upon her in a parody of a lover’s embrace”.

Kinda reminds you of Roran and the assassin’s embrace “as intimate as any lover’s”, huh? It’s a toss-up as to which is more inappropriate and out of place. And yes we get a description of the noblewoman’s boobs, because of course we do.

Zarq finally cuts and runs, leaving the woman to break the alarm that there’s a drug addict with a machete running around attacking people. Zarq hides in a dragon stable, where she’s suddenly able to knock a guy unconscious with a punch to the face.

Might I add, we’ve been repeatedly told how skinny she is, plus she’s just barely recovered from serious drug withdrawal.

A guard – because there are always generic “guards” in these situations – corners Zarq. I’m just going to pretend he yells “Halt! Halthalt!” or possibly “stop right there, criminal scum!” as he does this. He gets Zarq a good one with his sword (at least, I think it’s a sword – it’s only referred to as a “blade”), only to be crushed to death by a dragon who decides to use him as a human scratching post. No, really – the dragon crushes him against the wall of her stall and starts rubbing away until he snuffs it. Methinks somebody is in for a trip to the glue factory tomorrow.

Zarq runs off, but realises she’s been fatally wounded. Naturally she won’t actually die from this, since then the book would be over and there wouldn’t be two sequels. I’m really not sure what the point is. Other than to create some false tension/drama, obviously.

She keeps going, determined to get back to the funeral home so she can die in KZ’s arms. Um, why? Oh yeah, because they’re supposed to be good friends. I kind of forgot that in all the excitement.

But oh no! When she gets there the entire building has been burned to the ground! Man, those Evil Nobles work fast. It’s been what, less than twelve hours since the attempted murder and they’ve already a) Figured out exactly which funeral home Zarq belongs to (she was wearing a makimaki robe during the assault) b) Decided exactly what the appropriate response should be, c) Gathered up the appropriate forces and supplies, d) Had the building burned down with everyone presumably trapped inside, and finally e) Cleared out of there by the time Zarq shows up. It would have been pretty inconvenient if they’d still been there ready to nab her, huh? Now there’s some incredibly good timing.

I bet they didn’t bother to question anybody either. How did they even know they’d got the right place? Or that the perp was inside? I gotta say these guys are getting pretty fucking predictable. Their response to everything is “kill everybody who was remotely involved or related to anyone who was involved, plus anyone present who looked at me funny”. Don’t they ever bother to arrest anybody? At least we could have some scary dungeons/torture chambers to break it up a bit.

Not to mention that they’re constantly destroying their own resources just because they can. Who’s going to handle the remains of the dearly departed now? It’s not as if they can just appoint some new funeral directors – there’s no funeral home for them to work in any more! This is just pointless brutality for the sake of it, there to make the villains look extra evil even if it also makes them look cartoonishly over the top and quite frankly stupid. How are these guys even still running the country?

Zarq is super upset about this, and has a big meltdown over the tragic deaths of three characters we knew barely anything about, with whom she was so very close. We know this because the author says so, yet again. Their friendship was so moving and sweet, you guys! (Let’s pretend).

Now she finally starts dying, it being the dramatically appropriate time for that, and has a really weird near death experience where she sees the creepy Skykeeper bird. Except now it’s got maggots dripping out of its nose and one of those parasitic snakes for a tongue.

Lovely.

Then the daronpu (no he doesn’t have a name yet) we met earlier suddenly shows up, using Djimbi magic and yelling about how Zarq has to choose “pain or ease”. In other words, give up and die or get Deus Ex Machina’d back to life, Jon Snow style, and continue being a personality deprived, boring whiner. And that applies to both characters, by the way.

Zarq also sees the ghost of Yellow Face, and concludes that she was indeed offed by the Temple, and OMG – the Temple is EVIL and the cause of all this pain and suffering!

Zarq really is incredibly slow on the uptake, isn’t she? They’ve only been actively oppressing you and everyone you know for your entire life, you slow-witted bozo. Naturally this little revelation comes packaged with even more anachronisms in the text, one of them being “monopolised”. Oh, and it’s totally the Temple’s fault that Zarq can’t have hawt dragon sex any more.

Really. It actually says that. OMGs, the Temple prohibits beastiality which also can easily kill a person, or at least leave them a drooling addict for life?? Those monsters! Zarq is tempted to go with her Dear Sweet Surrogate Mother/Mentor (let’s keep pretending) to the afterlife, where she won’t have to suffer any more.

But no! She still wants to kill Kratt, because it’s totally his fault KZ’s baby died! (Do you really think she’s ever going to blame her own stupid actions for that? Hell no! She’s the hero!). And she wants to own a bull dragon and a clutch of her own! Why, I have no idea. She just does.

So Zarq gets to come back to life because the plot demands it, and the daronpu yells about how he’s found “her”, ie. “the Skykeeper’s Daughter”. You know, when you think about it it’s kind of odd how fantasy protags are always collecting extra names/titles for themselves. What gives?

Does this mean Zarq actually is the Chosen One Equivalent? Nope – we eventually find out the real Skykeeper’s Daughter is somone else and she’s just some random loser with a ghost harassing her and a hankering for dragon tongues.

But she’s the protagonist anyway. Figures.

Anyway, then Zarq passes out to end the chapter, because that’s what fantasy protagonists do. I predict an upcoming “hero slowly recovers from grievous injury” scene or chapter. Should be exciting, especially being as this will be the third or fourth time we’ve seen it happen so far.

65 comments
[1]

torylltales
May 31 2017, 12:12:09
Does anyone know if the Furry community ever got their hands on this thing? Because this is prime NSFW fanfic territory if ever I’ve seen it.

As an ex-parrot furry ("it has ceased to be"), I can tell you that there are certain standards even the furry community won't lower themselves below.
Compared to this mess the majority of furry porn is tasteful artwork of subtlety and quality.

[1A]

dinogrrl
May 31 2017, 13:01:15
I was about to say something to this effect. I mean, I didn't hang around the parts of the community that were into this sort of thing, but those I knew who were, they spent their money/time/effort on quality wtfery, not...whatever this is.

I mean really, I can barely make sense of the storyline(??? if it exists) in the sporking. Your poor brain, having to wade through it for us and condense it to even this semi-coherent plot. *patpat*

[1A1]

theepistler
May 31 2017, 14:32:05
You're correct - this novel really doesn't have a proper storyline. Stuff happens, but none of it goes anywhere. Zarq isn't trying to accomplish anything; she just kind of hangs around doing... stuff. Eating, sleeping, menial labour, and that's about it. She has no big ambitions, no hopes or dreams, no motivation to do anything. Which is why I keep bitching about how utterly useless she is and how I'd rather have someone else be the protagonist even if it's a totalbitch like Waivia. Waivia might be utterly unlikeable, but so is Zarq, and at least Waivia has motivations.

[1B]

zorbulon
June 1 2017, 07:14:02
There is a reason why there is only one printing ever made of Man-Kzin Wars IV... and it is not a nice one.

[2]

Anonymous
June 1 2017, 04:12:39
Those things make me wish the brisingr sporks came faster, if only because you might not radiate your brain with those cancer-provoking abominations.

(By the way, ¿Why do the sporks come out so slowly? Is it because it's the exams season? Or something else? How is it going the next spork?

[2A]

theepistler
June 1 2017, 09:19:03
I have no idea - Predak was supposed to be tackling the next chapter. I'll drop her/him a line and see what's going on.

[3]

vekhandvekh
June 1 2017, 18:55:14 Edited: June 1 2017, 19:04:56
>generic guards
>halt

Listen to the song of their people:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=IpeettBUmF4

[3A]

theepistler
June 1 2017, 19:11:20
BAHAHAH! It's possible to embed videos in LJ comments, btw.

Watch on YouTube

[3A1]

vekhandvekh
June 1 2017, 19:15:50
I tried, but I'm on mobile and it just freaks out on me for some reason.

[3A1A]

theepistler
June 1 2017, 19:17:17
Okay, that's fair enough. I have no idea how to do it on my mobile.

[4]

vaskrslacigla
June 1 2017, 20:27:02
I have to disagree on Jon. He is kinda boring character to me compared to others, but he isn't that personality deprived. He is just different type of person.

But then I read the books, and I watched only few episodes of the show so I don't know really a lot about it. Anyway, opinions... feel free to disagree.

[4A]

theepistler
June 1 2017, 20:34:05 Edited: June 1 2017, 20:36:11
Oh, I'll disagree all right. Jon Snow would probably be an okay character in a different series, but in this one he sticks out like a sore thumb. In a series where most of the characters are multi-layered and realistic, he's this bland, generic fantasy hero type of the sort you'd usually see in a book like Eragon. As the protagonist.

I mean, come on. He's SO incredibly one-dimensional and boring, not to mention a huge Mary Sue. Mysterious parentage? Check. Special sword? Check. Cool animal companion? Check. Whiny angst? Check. Constantly gets away with breaking the rules, scot-free? Check. Put in a position of authority on the basis of virtually no experience when he's FOURTEEN YEARS OLD? Check. Turns out to have secret royal blood from a super special royal bloodline? Check and check.

Fuck Jon Snow and fuck anyone who thinks he's an awesome character just because he gets cool privileges and is played by a charisma-free actor who happens to be conventionally attractive. If he ends up becoming King at the end of the series I will personally fly to to New Mexico and hit GRRM over the head with a particularly smelly dead fish.

[4A1]

vaskrslacigla
June 1 2017, 20:38:09
Ok

[4A1A]

theepistler
June 1 2017, 20:40:00
Damn right. >:(

[4A1A1]

vaskrslacigla
June 1 2017, 21:10:04
He is at least 16 when he gets elected tho, just sayin.
I think Martin doesn't like him either, some shit will happen after all good things, as always.

(I should have posted this anonimously, now i feel responsible dammit.)

[4A1A1A]

vaskrslacigla
June 1 2017, 21:11:59 Edited: June 1 2017, 21:15:04
Also he should have stayed Ned's bastard, I hate all that Targaryen shit. And almost everyone important has a cool sword and all Starks had a direwolf, it is just some of them died or went missing.

[4A1A1A1]

theepistler
June 1 2017, 23:12:15 Edited: June 1 2017, 23:14:35
Of course we don't know if the TV show matches up perfectly with the books, since GRRM is so bloody slow they caught up with him a season or two ago. But I do know he's revealed stuff to them in advance, so it's probably book canon that Jon is a Targyrien (can't remember how to spell it). It was pretty well telegraphed, really. Just for ONCE I'd like a mysterious orphan's parentage in a fantasy novel to turn out to be completely unimportant. (Don't worry - I'm in the process of writing one right now).

GRRM has actually gone on record saying that Jon is the hero of the series, though, which does not bode well. If I sound overly pissed when talking about this stuff, it's because I was originally fooled into thinking A Song of Ice and Fire would be something new and different. Now it's starting to look like it'll be just another dime a dozen fantasy story wearing slightly different pants.

[4A1A1A1A]

vaskrslacigla
June 2 2017, 01:24:07
I don't think Jon is the main character or at least the most important main character. Jon is in Nights Watch and it doesn't make sense if he becomes king because he isn't allowed to. He doesn't want to become king and it wouldn't fit in his character if he did. And I believe he has a character. Not everyone in world has to be morally questionable, nice people can exist too and many people can relate to him. Jon had stupid decisions, he killed Qorrin, he betrayed his brothers, then betrayed wildlings too and did dumb shit which eventually led to him getting stabbed. I personaly find him a decent character if he stays where he is despite being royal offspring. (Note he is still a bastard).
He deffinetly isn't my
favourite character because there are more interesting ones like Tyrion, Arya, Brann and many others. I don't think he is a Marty Stu either, he has flaws, not everyone likes him and he is very down to earth character.He got to be Lord Commander because he proved himself against wildlings, because Sam made other watchmen elect him and because they knew Mormont liked him and because his uncle was famous within their ranks. That said I think his ressurection was stupid. He shouldn't have died at the first place because he is supposed to fight Others and there his role as commander makes sense. At the end of the series I would be happy if he becomes praised by people for fighting off ice zombies but will be extremelly pissed if he becomes king because that would be fucking wish fulfillment and wouldnt make sense at all. Lannisters are powerfull, Daenerys has dragons and huge armies, what does Jon have? He is just Rheagar and Lyena's bastard who doesn't have rights to the throne unless acknowleged by parent as rightful heir and shit. And his parents are dead.

There you go I said it, shots fired, feel free to murder me, I won't apologize.

[4A1A1A1A1]

theepistler
June 2 2017, 01:35:24 Edited: June 2 2017, 01:36:06
Hey, it's not me who said he was the main character - it was the AUTHOR.
According to the show he's now released from his vows thanks to his death and Deus ex Machina resurrection. In fact that's apparently the entire reason why he was killed off in the first place. Which is ridiculously cheap. In the books it's implied that he didn't die at all and that it was a body double who got stabbed. Either way he's now free to become King. *groan*

Now I'll admit that in the books he actually has flaws. There he's not really a Sue - he's mostly just boring, albeit blessed by a serious case of Author Favour. The show really ramped up his specialness, which was when I went from finding him tedious to finding him obnoxious. I mean really. Everyone else in the show who gets killed off is gone for good, but Jon gets a special get-out-of-death-free card just because he's Special? Please.

[4A1A1A1A1A]

vaskrslacigla
June 2 2017, 01:59:11
He is still a bastard and it wouldnt make sense if he becomes king, I hope GRRM listens to his brain and not fans. They can always write a fanfiction if they want to.

[4A1A1A1A1A1]

theepistler
June 2 2017, 10:37:30
Actually GRRM doesn't allow fanfiction...

[4A1A1A1A1A1A]

vaskrslacigla
June 2 2017, 15:51:29
Lol, well they can do it private.

[4A1A1A1A1A1A1]

theepistler
June 2 2017, 15:53:55
That's how we did it in the good ole days, before every thirteen year old girl had her own account on fanfiction.net and a zillion different fan forums to choose from. Fandom has gone absolutely batshit insane since the internets came along. More so than it already was, I mean.

[4A1A1A1B]

vaskrslacigla
June 2 2017, 01:54:10
That said I have no idea what happens in show, i care only about books, and I bet it will have big differences compared to it. Among other things i hate how in show they have fucking leather armor because that was never a thing or makes sense.

[4A1A1A1B1]

vaskrslacigla
June 2 2017, 02:13:03
Show gets everything wrong, so many opportunities are missed, like Cathelyn being still alive, Ramsay actually being disgusting, book characters that are not even in the show... and now Jon being King of the North kills me inside, I hope Martin changes it.

[4A1A1A1B1A]

theepistler
June 2 2017, 10:40:19
Yeah, the show was a lot better before it succumbed to blatant fanservice. Fucking Jon Snow becoming King of the North had me foaming at the mouth. I mean come ON! And he gets this big dramatic resurrection scene which is nothing like anything GRRM would write. Fans found the idiot generically handsome, so the show made him the Sue just to keep them happy. Remember all the hoo-hah when he got killed off? People were building MEMORIALS to this stupid character. Boo hoo, a fictional character died.

Honestly, I find obsessive hardcore fans absolutely insufferable.

[4A1A1A1B1A1]

vaskrslacigla
June 2 2017, 15:53:40
Even though GRRM doesnt allow fanfiction, he allowed a bigger fanfiction to happen on tv.

[4A1A1A1B1A1A]

theepistler
June 2 2017, 15:55:48
Can't say I'm that sorry for him. It didn't start descending into fanservice/fanfiction until they ran out of books to adapt and had to start inventing their own material. You can actually see the exact moment when it started happening, and it was right around the time Jon Snow got shanked. (Is it wrong that I cheered?).

[4A1A1A1B1A1B]

vaskrslacigla
June 2 2017, 16:07:26
We should close the thread now, I didn't mean anything bad and I hate they made Jon a sue, he should have stayed the way he was. Sorry if I wrote something weird or otherwise unpleasant. I hope you get a refund for your book, you are awesome ;).

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theepistler
June 2 2017, 16:16:30
Nah, it's fine. I've been enjoying the discussion, actually!

I was ticked that they made Jon a Sue, too. He wasn't really that much of a Sue in the books - mostly I just found him boring and slightly irritating. It's kind of unfair to the original character that the show made me start hating him. And even then it was mostly because all the fan love annoyed the shit out of me.

[4A1A1A1B1A1B1A]

vaskrslacigla
June 2 2017, 16:21:39
Fans are the worst.

If I ever get a fanbase for anything, they will have to eat only what I serve them.

[4A1A1A1B1A1B1A1]

theepistler
June 2 2017, 17:34:50 Edited: June 2 2017, 17:35:55
I do have a fanbase, of sort. I have fans, anyway. And they get what I give them. Only twice have I written something because a fan requested it. The first time I went ahead with it because I realised the fan was correct and that the story had indeed been foreshadowing it all along. He'd just spotted it before I did.

The second time I went ahead with it but wrote it in a way that was natural to the story/characters rather than making it the sort of fanservice the person wanted. And boy were they disappointed. Said fan wanted two characters to fall in love, you see, but I realised a healthy relationship between them was simply not tenable, so I wrote their romance as really fucked-up and ended it with an ugly divorce and the man ending up having to deal with an estranged son who hates his guts for never being there while he was growing up.

[4A1A1A1B1A1B1A1A]

vaskrslacigla
June 2 2017, 18:24:04
That makes sense, I meant more of ''Don't kill off the character!'' type of thing.

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theepistler
June 2 2017, 18:27:10
Oh yeah, there's that as well. I've never spared anyone just because they were a fan favourite.

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Anonymous
June 4 2017, 18:16:28
How do you know he's a bastard? Wouldn't at all be strange if Reager married Lynna before he was born. Sure he had a wife already but Aegon the conquerer had two to begin with so fuck it. What's legitimate and what's not is what the people decide. Bit of a theme in the series.

[4A1A1A1C1]

theepistler
June 4 2017, 18:19:39
Yeah, I don't think anyone would care that much under the right circumstances. Word got out that Joffrey was a bastard, but only his enemies took it seriously while his supporters wrote it off as obvious propaganda. In politics, if you have enough support it's pretty easy to have inconvenient truths quietly done away with.

[4A1A1A1C2]

vaskrslacigla
June 4 2017, 18:20:28
If so nobody knows about it, and nobody is there to prove it.

[4A1A1A1C2A]

theepistler
June 4 2017, 18:22:39
Yeah, just like how there's no actual proof that Jaime is Joffrey's real father. The only eyewitness to the brother-sister shenanigans can't remember what he saw, and Eddard Stark is dead.

[4A2]

Anonymous
June 4 2017, 18:11:24
Nitpick but he's sixteen approaching seventeen by the time he gets control of the Nightswatch.

[4A2A]

theepistler
June 4 2017, 18:13:16
I honestly have zero recollection of that ever being mentioned in the books. :/

[4A2A1]

Anonymous
June 5 2017, 12:59:58
Well it's not expressly stated but he starts off the series at fourteen and almost three years pass within the first three books so it's just a bit of basic arithmetic.

[5]

galbyisourking
June 2 2017, 13:19:38
Nooo! Not Beauty! She's the only good character to come out of this trainwreck, and now she's gone? Curses and drat!

And in all seriousness, 311 pages? It took 311 pages for Zarq to finally grow a spine and start doing something for herself?? Why are we supposed to be rooting for this character? She whines about her problems without doing anything about them, she has no personality to speak of, and on top of that she describes (in fascinating levels of detail, mind you) every single thing related to sex despite being NINE YEARS OLD.

[5A]

theepistler
June 2 2017, 14:31:54
I know, right? And yes, it really did take 311 pages.

I hate Zarq. I can't even make myself feel sorry for her despite all the nasty stuff that happens to her. As you say, she has no personality and constantly whines about her troubles without doing a damn thing about it. Sure there are people who are actually like that and I've met a few, but that doesn't mean I want to read about them. Why? BECAUSE THEY'RE ANNOYING AS HELL. There's a reason why whiny, useless people are unpopular in the real world. It's because nobody likes them.

[5A1]

vaskrslacigla
June 2 2017, 15:58:43
You wrote something about characters getting thinner as writer gets fatter, I googled Jaqueline Cross and she isn't fat at all, maybe she was before if I missed something?

[5A1A]

theepistler
June 2 2017, 16:03:24
Nah, I was just being facetious. I have no idea what the author looks like. :p

(A lot of authors are on the tubby side, including me, and it's actually not that surprising. For one thing our occupations entail an awful lot of sitting on our asses. Plus most of us are poor, and junk food is cheap. Most of us drink like fish as well).

[5A1A1]

vaskrslacigla
June 2 2017, 16:14:04
I immediately thought of Cassandra Clare when you said it.

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theepistler
June 2 2017, 16:30:00
Heheh. Yeah, she's a prime example if ever there was one. It just slays me how she pretends her Mary Sues are "empowered" and "feminist" when in reality they're naked wish fulfillment.

I'm probably a tad bit unusual as far as overweight, insecure women writers go: none of my characters are described as super attractive. Most of them just look like regular people. Even my most handsome character is repeatedly described as badly scarred, and when people hug him they always find that he's really not nice to cuddle with because he's so bony. One of the downsides of being super thin is you're not cuddly. :p

[5A1A1A1]

vaskrslacigla
June 2 2017, 17:20:01
Hehe, I do the same thing, never describe someone as such, because people have subjective opinions on what attractive is. One of my characters is beautiful to one person, but for anyone else looks like rat.

[5A1A1A1A]

theepistler
June 2 2017, 17:27:41 Edited: June 2 2017, 17:28:45
Yup. And if there's one thing readers hate, it's being told what to think. It's why so many people were pissed off by the endless descriptions of how HAWT Edward Cullen/Arya/Christian Grey are. Besides which, it's personality that makes a character attractive. Somebody with zero charisma is never going to be truly attractive. They're the sort of person you use as wank fodder and maybe have a brief fling with, not the sort of person you're likely to have an actual lasting relationship with. Not unless you're just as boring as they are.

Here's a fine example for you: back in the day I had a character who had a shitton of charisma. Cunning, thoughtful, assertive, occasionally angsty, and very brave. This guy was never once described as attractive; I just said what he looked like and left it at that.

In no time at all readers were swooning over how "hot and sexy" this guy was, even though I'd never described him as anything of the sort. Because I didn't have to. All you have to do is give your characters attractive personalities and readers will read physical attractiveness into that all by themselves.

That would be why hacks like Meyer have to spend 600 pages constantly reminding you how hot their love interest characters are. Otherwise they run the risk of readers twigging that said love interests are actually dull as ditchwater (and sometimes flat-out abusive and horrible).

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vaskrslacigla
June 2 2017, 18:31:22
True. I don't even know how do you imagine dull sparkly vampires to be ''hawt''?

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theepistler
June 2 2017, 18:40:54
I know, right? Plus they're literally made of ROCK and have no body heat. You'd need a very specific fetish to want to fuck what is essentially a living statue. o.0

[5B]

theepistler
June 2 2017, 14:32:56
PS: Icon love! Shruikan is the only one of Palencar's dragon illustrations I actually like, probably because it's the only one that actually looks badass. The rest of them look way too simian and quite frankly goofy.

[6]

vaskrslacigla
June 2 2017, 20:11:45
That night Zarq has a visit. The haunt of Ghost Mummy has left her body and taken the form of a creepy blue vulture-like bird called a Skykeeper. Surprise surprise, Bird Mum wants Zarq to – what else – find Waivia, her “favourite nestling”. Zarq goes for the venom to make the thing fuck off and leave her alone and the Skykeeper tries to steal it, but Zarq manages to get high and this makes it fly off. I’m not sure why.

This is so weird reading aloud, I love it!

[6A]

theepistler
June 2 2017, 20:26:14
It seriously is just that bizarre...

[7]

Anonymous
June 4 2017, 17:40:06
‘Don’t burn what you would destroy. You’ll only choke on the ashes.’

Eh what? Like seriously what? Don't burn what you would destroy...So if you want to destroy something do it in a way other than burning? Even though that's a proven effective way of destroying things. I guess don't do that because you'll choke on the ashes, i.e. you could end up burning yourself in the process. For this to work it needs to depend on being both metaphorical and literal at the same time and also only applicable to idiots who don't know how to burn things. If it's meant to be a message about restraint then it shouldn't dissuade destruction based purely on the manner. If it's meant to be about being smart with how you operate then it's doing rubbish job because it's just shooting down viable methods without providing an alternative. It fails on absolutely every level you can approach it from. Man I really want to contact the author and figure out what her thought process was when writing that.

Also I can't be the only one who thinks of Chinese racism every time I hear Yellow Face.

[7A]

theepistler
June 4 2017, 17:52:38 Edited: June 4 2017, 17:53:12
I know, right? It SOUNDS cool and meaningful, but it's actually complete nonsense.

Also I can't be the only one who thinks of Chinese racism every time I hear Yellow Face.

Trust me, you're not. I kept picturing this really creepy-looking old Chinese woman with jaundice every time Yellow Face showed up, which really didn't help make her any more appealing to read about. And this is the same character who gleefully cut the clitoris off a nine-year-old child. I still can't believe we're actually expected to LIKE her.

[8]

Anonymous
June 4 2017, 17:44:46
Oh yummy! Gharials. I actually know what they are and there's a rather funny story behind them.

So to make a long story short, they're crocodiles. In the same way alligators are crocodile. Same family. There's the lesser known Caimen. Well Gahrials are even lesser known than Caimans though I'm not sure why.

Anyway, the funny story. There's two types of Gharials. The Common Gahrial and the False Gahrial. The False Gahrial is so called because when experts saw it they thought it was a crocodile that looked like a Gahrial. But it turns out it's a Gahrial that...looks like a Gahrial. And what's more, the False Gahrial is actually more common than the Common Gahrial!

[8A]

vaskrslacigla
June 4 2017, 18:26:54 Edited: June 4 2017, 18:27:12
I can see you really like Gahrials.

[8A1]

theepistler
June 4 2017, 18:29:02
What's not to like?


(As you can see from this picture, the idea of a gharial being able to eat people is completely laughable).

[8A1A]

vaskrslacigla
June 4 2017, 23:50:27
Awww, it's so cute!

[8A1A1]

theepistler
June 5 2017, 07:17:51
Wook at dat big friendly smile!

[8A2]

Anonymous
June 5 2017, 13:01:44
I was planning on naming myself the Devil's Advocate if I ever make an account here but now I'm sorely tempted to with the Gahrial Guy.

[8A2A]

theepistler
June 5 2017, 17:02:10
Decisions decisions... they're both so good! How about Gharial's Advocate?

[9]

Anonymous
June 4 2017, 17:50:06
Trainstopping sounds way more hardcore than Trainspotting.

[9A]

theepistler
June 4 2017, 17:55:41
Ack, how did that typo get in there?? 'Scuse me while I fix it. Oh my lands, I'm so embarrassed!