Brisingr Spork Chaopter 37: Message In A Mirror

[pangolin20]

torylltales wrote in antishurtugal, 2017-12-17 19:16:00

Brisingr Spork Chaopter 37: Message In A Mirror

Contrary to the chapter title, this chapter contains neither a message nor a mirror.

Oh look, another Saphira POV chapter.

Pipedream has gone mysteriously missing, leaving behind nothing but a pile of recently-worn clothes, and a strange box with a three-way switch on top and a potato inside*

I haven't forgotten about the ongoing What Will Happen In Eragon IV sporking, I'm just trying to avoid it.

"The morning sun beat down on Saphira, suffusing her with a pleasant warmth."

Ugh. I forgot how much I dislike Paolini's attempts at description.

"She lay basking on a smooth shelf of stone several feet above Eragon's empty cloth-shell-tent."

UGH.

Also, what? Are they camped in a cave? Is the rock floating? Are we in the middle of Stonehenge?

???

"Saphira yawned and stretched out her right foreleg, spreading the clawed fingers of her paw"

REPTILES DON'T HAVE PAWS

The paw is characterised by thin, pigmented, keratinised, hairless epidermis covering subcutaneous collagenous and adipose tissue, which make up the pads. These pads act as a cushion for the load-bearing limbs of the animal. The paw consists of the large, heart-shaped metacarpal or palmar pad (forelimb) or metatarsal or plantar pad (rear limb), and generally four load-bearing digital pads, although there can be five or six toes in the case of domestic cats and bears (including giant panda). A carpal pad is also found on the forelimb which is used for additional traction when stopping or descending a slope in digitigrade species. Additional dewclaws can also be present.
The paw also includes a horn-like, beak shaped claw on each digit.

Paw:


[Caption: Photo of a dog's paw.]

Not a paw:


[Caption: Underside of a hind foot of a Blotched or Southern Blue Tongue Lizard]

Unless Paolini is suggesting that his dragons are mammals, like some kind of giant flying pangolin, this is completely the wrong word.


[Caption: Picture of a giant pangolin with a human next to it, intended to make the pangolin look huge.]
From the first draft: Kevin from the sleepy mountain town of Mont Ana, with his dragon, Goldie.

(For Anya and the other Cards players, if Saphira were a pangolin, that would completely change the meaning of Smutsia gigantea.)

So, to summarise the entirety of page 1 of this chaper: Saphira is lazing around in the sun during a war, once she saw Thorn flying in the distance, and she refuses to let Bleeding-arm, sorry, Blödhghärhmr, ride her.

But then she hears a sound! It is the sound of a messenger running through the camp.

Then she hears another sound, some time later! It is another messenger! And then two more messengers!

Then she goes to sleep!

Then she wakes up, to the sound of angry voices!

She is annoyed that someone woke her up. She has a headache.

Nasuada visits, and they speak telepathically. That is to say, Saphira reads Nasuada's mind while she thinks things.

Apparently four messengers in an afternoon is "an unusual amount of messengers". Even though "Saphira paid little attention to the sound; messengers were always hurrying to and fro" on the previous page.

Either messengers are always hurrying around, or four people with messages, in a war camp, is an unusual amount. Make up your mind.

It turns out one of the Varden soldiers crept into the urgal camp at night and killed one of them. Without waking anyone else, or being caught. By the superhumanly strong and tough warrior species who has no reason to trust their safety surrounded by their ancestral enemies, on the basis of a flimsy alliance against a common enemy.

Right.

It seems the man responsible is nothing more than a common racist. He wasn't acting for revenge, or honour, but "for no other reason than that they are urgals".

I admire Paolini trying to tackle the important but thorny issue of racism here, but now is neither the time nor the place for such discussion, and Paolini has not yet shown that he is capable of subtlety, or of empathetic and respectful discussion.

There follows almost two pages of italicised dialogue, as they discuss and rationalise Nasuada's decision to uphold well-advertised laws and consequences.

Nasuada praises Saphira for being "very wise", because of course she does, and then Nasuada mentions offhandedly that Eragon had contacted them by mirror scrying to ask Saphira to meet him at Farthen Dur.

There's yet more pointless drivel, I mean "plot essential dialogue", and then the elves put on Saphira's saddle, sorry, her uncomfortable-leather-patch-Eragon-seat-saddle, and after yet more dawdling and exposition, Saphira flies off towards the dwarves.

What a utter waste of pages. What an insult to pacing. What a complete waste of everybody's time, and I include in that the readers, the editor, the typesetter, the ink producer, the person who pulled the lever to operate the machine that made the paper it was printed on, and Clippy the Paperclip who presumably helped when Paolini was typing it.

I cannot think of a single reason for this chapter to exist, as precisely nothing of any worth is accomplished. We get Saphira flying to meet Eragon, but that could have been accomplished in a few sentences.

Over to you, Bishop, with Four Strokes of the Drum, followed by Epistler with Reunion and then Doomotter with Ascension.


* This is a reference to Terry Pratchett and Steve Baxter's The Long Earth, in which such a device is used to jump between parallel dimensions.

68 comments

[1]

pipedreamno20
December 17 2017, 19:31:04
*warps back into the room wearing dazed expression*

Well that was a journey and a half! Found myself in a place which coincidentally grows nothing but potatoes bereft of most modcons including internet access, my laptop which I had left at home, and charged up devices for three weeks, only to return two days ago and realise HOSHIT my chapter was due before I’d even gone!! D:

Thank you so much Toryll for stepping in and doing a much finer job in the process. What an absolute waste of words of a chapter of pretentious Paolininess and irritating hyphenated-bogus-dragon-language. Bonus points for “one character praising another for their wisdom” “dragons have paws” and Nasuada asking Saphira if she can “remain inside her” more priceless erotic subtext...

[1A]

torylltales
December 17 2017, 19:40:34
So, you went to Belfast for 3 weeks?

[1A1]

pipedreamno20
December 17 2017, 19:43:19
XD well first the Philippines for a wedding then Nepal to do a whole lot of walking for a fortnight - whole trip kinda snuck up on me heh

[1A1A]

theepistler
December 17 2017, 19:52:14
Wow, I wish I got out as much as you obviously do. *is a sad sack who can barely afford to leave town for the weekend*

[1A1A1]

pipedreamno20
December 17 2017, 19:58:10
Long story but had no money going and minus money returning so... *woo confetti*

[1A1A1A]

theepistler
December 17 2017, 20:04:51
See, I'm too wussy to do something like that. The idea of being without money scares me too much, which is why every time I get my hands on some extra cash I just put it in my untouched savings account "just in case". My parents always taught me to be careful with money when I was a kid, and it just kind of stuck. At least it means I've never wound up sleeping on someone's couch or borrowing money off my parents, so there's that. I just wish I was more adventurous sometimes, you know?

[1A1A1A1]

pipedreamno20
December 17 2017, 20:16:35
Well, take it from me... financial instability is the absolute worst for your mental state sometimes - especially if some of the reasons why are completely out of your control, so props to that ‘wussy’ stuff. Completely over it. Hope to be taking a leaf out of your book come March if all goes to plan (like it ever does ahaha) just have to survive over incredibly lean Xmas season because the majority of my current paid work only runs over school term. Like, I wouldn’t have gone at all on any of my recent trips if not for my second half who has pretty much footed the majority of the bill each time (don’t worry that frustrates me so much and I will pay him back when I can).

But anyway if you have any savings that you can sensibly justify spending because you know it won’t leave you short, and you have the time/energy to spare, book a trip somewhere, travel is amazing in all the right ways

[1B]

theepistler
December 17 2017, 19:47:31
Pipedream, you're alive! I was so worried! *sob* Don't you EVER scare me like that again, young lady!

[1B1]

pipedreamno20
December 17 2017, 19:57:09
Eeeehh sorry! Not planning on going anywhere for the next ever hah

(Also thanks for the concern though means a fair bit)

[1B1A]

theepistler
December 17 2017, 20:16:18
You're welcome! We're all family here, right? Cranky, argumentative family. :-p

[1B1A1]

pipedreamno20
December 17 2017, 20:17:06
Exactly - and what family isn’t?

[1B1A1A]

theepistler
December 17 2017, 20:33:47
Mine definitely is - you should hear my mum and dad going at it whenever they're at home together. >.>

[2]

vorpal_tongue
December 17 2017, 19:43:05
Okay, there ARE messeges, and there IS a mirror... but the message IN the mirror is offscreen.

... FFS Paolini.

Now that I got that out of the way, what is it with the word "Wise" and Paolini? Everytime he has a character make 'difficult' decisions, or he wants us to 'revere' them, he chucks out this word from a character's mouth. Here's particularly terrible. Nasuada stated that the Urgal Forces are to be treated like any other soldier, and some guy kills him and brags about it. If that warrants execution, execute him! If it warrants flogging and banishment, flog and banish him! There's nothing 'wise' about freaking doing what you said you would.

As for the messengers, Pao might be saying 'four messengers to one place' as opposed to 'four messengers, period.' Might have been better if Saphira noted it was an unusual amount for one place in a short time, even if it was the main HQ.

[2A]

torylltales
December 17 2017, 19:47:43
well yeah, but that's like naming a chapter "tomatoes" because one of the characters ate one off screen.

[2A1]

vorpal_tongue
December 17 2017, 22:45:13
I know. Bloody ridiculous. He could have at least double-checked his title and the content of-

Well, he probably thought it was appropriate considering it was Eragon (I believe) giving the message.

[2A1A]

theepistler
December 18 2017, 08:36:00
I think he's running out of ideas, quite frankly. I caught him using the same chapter title ("The Storm Breaks") twice.

Well, he probably thought it was appropriate considering it was Eragon (I believe) giving the message.

And the universe does after all revolve around the self-insert, so...

[2B]

theepistler
December 17 2017, 20:28:35 Edited: December 17 2017, 20:29:48
Now that I got that out of the way, what is it with the word "Wise" and Paolini?

Oh GODS yes. His obsession with making all his favoured characters "wise" drives me around the bend. Saphira is "wise" despite being friggin' six months old. Eragon is "wise" despite being a sixteen year old kid with no life experience. Nasuada is "wise" despite being an eighteen-year-old kid with no life experience. The elves are "wise" despite acting like they're on drugs half the time.

What makes it even more annoying is the "wisdom" in question is always either stupidly obvious, or it's a bunch of Ice Cream Koans.

Thing is, you can make your characters knowledgeable. You can make them experienced. But you can't go around proclaiming that they're "wise" unless they actually have wisdom, and none of Paolini's characters do because the only 'wisdom' he's able to give them is just stuff he read in other people's books or saw in a movie, rather than anything he got from his own life experience. You can tell in part because none of it is ever actually applied to the characters or their actions. A good example of that is the elvish "killing is bad" philosophy. It's not a bad philosophy, and it can work in a society. But it's never followed through on. The moment it becomes inconvenient to not kill, the elves do it without the slightest hesitation and so does Eragon. Thus it never comes off as a "learned" philosophy or way of life. It's just there and then dropped.

[3]

torylltales
December 17 2017, 19:43:51
note: I totally meant to write Chapter, but apparently (appaoently) my love of puns has caused me to write Chaopter, even though that doesn't even make sense and isn't funny.

[4]

theepistler
December 17 2017, 19:50:51
Saphira has "paws" because Paolini has long since stopped thinking of her as a dragon and now sees her as a cat. And writes her accordingly. This chapter was clearly a sad attempt to make it look as if she's actually doing something in the story. Sorry, but it's not working. She's still contributing absolutely nothing to the plot, and this chapter is a complete and total waste of time and ink.

To paraphrase another even grumpier critic, it has been said that a politician is someone who can talk for an hour without actually saying anything. If this is true, Paolini could run for office and become Emperor of the Universe by Tuesday.

[5]

minionnumber2
December 17 2017, 19:58:48
So you have an extremely delicate alliance with an ancestral enemy who out match you in pretty much everything, who are all sleeping in the same camps as you and who know the exact layout of your camp. What do you do?
A. Keep to your alliance like decent people, maybe keeping an eye on them in the night.
B. Kill as many of them as possible in their sleep if you have the means to.
C. Kill exactly one Urgal so that the rest of them, who are assumed to be barbarians, can rampage across your camp when they find out what happened.

Tell the Town Idiot that the answer is not always C.

[5A]

theepistler
December 17 2017, 20:01:24
There's also D. Kill exactly one of them, get away with it, then brag to everybody in earshot about what you did and assume this won't get you into any trouble. I think this guy might have been dropped on his head as a baby one time too many. Or he's a Paolini character, but there's really not a lot of difference.

[5A1]

minionnumber2
December 17 2017, 20:25:52
It's still dumb all around, because even if he wasn't personally caught and didn't brag about it in the morning it's not exactly rocket science to figure out what happened and blame the Varden camp. People don't spontaneously get their throats cut/heads caved in in the middle of the night. And it can't be the enemy if only a few random nobodies were killed in only one camp with no one in the other camp spotted any attackers. You can't even say it was a heat of the moment kind of thing because sneaking around implies it was premeditated.(Apparently it was three Urgals, my bad.)

[5A1A]

theepistler
December 17 2017, 20:34:55
Oh, definitely. I only mentioned it because Toryll left that detail out. Now maybe if he'd done it and then sneaked off to join the Empire or something, it might have been slightly less moronic.

[5A1A1]

torylltales
December 17 2017, 21:54:20
I didn't bother to mention the details, because it has exactly no relevance to or impact upon the rest of the story.
The urgals don't defect or threaten to defect, there's no escalation of hostilities between humans and urgals, the man's friends and family don't try to seek revenge on the 'monsters' or on Nasuada, there's no further simmering racial tensions or growing sentiment that Nasuada has betrayed her humanity, or anything even remotely related to this event.

It has so little effect on the story that I'd easily believe it was shoved in after the rest of the story was finished, just to pad the word count and show how "strong" Nasuada's leadership is (and how "wise" Saphira's platitudes are).

[5A1A1A]

theepistler
December 17 2017, 22:06:42 Edited: December 17 2017, 22:11:33
Yeah, I would have left it out too for being 100% irrelevant. I mean slightly more so than everything else in this shameful waste of trees, which is saying a lot.

It's like this entire series after the second book has severe short-term memory loss. Everything that happens is forgotten on the next page. Either that or Paolini really wasn't paying attention, which I very much suspect he wasn't. It's like he took a week off between every chapter and didn't read over the last few pages before getting back into it. And Inheritance is even worse - reading that, I got the distinct impression that he took a week off between every paragraph.

[5A1A1A1]

minionnumber2
December 18 2017, 07:06:49
If we left out stuff for being irrelevant we'd only have five pages of sporking material.

[5A1A1A1A]

theepistler
December 18 2017, 08:36:39
True, and where's the fun in that?

[5A1A1A2]

thegharialguy
December 19 2017, 13:55:42
I think he paid a lot of attention. To the fact that two books make more money than one book. Hence why the trilogy became the "cycle".

[5A1A1A2A]

theepistler
December 23 2017, 19:29:01
...Or his parents did.

[5A1A2]

ghostwyvern
December 17 2017, 22:32:15
Joining the Empire would make sense in a way, although wasn't the Empire using urgals too early on? I can't remember... Anyway if someone were displeased because of the alliance with "those filthy urgals," it'd make sense for them to do something like this and then run to rejoin the Imperial forces.
The bragging and staying in camp expecting no consequences, on the other hand, is beyond idiotic.

[5A1A2A]

theepistler
December 17 2017, 22:42:01
Yes, the urgals were originally on the Empire's side and were basically just disposable "monster" people for Eragon to kill without having to feel bad about it until Paolini decided to try and introduce some grey morality, albeit in the clumsiest way possible, by massively retconning them from Orc ripoffs to Klingon ripoffs and having them change sides for some poorly-explained reason.

What I don't get is why none of the urgals apparently stayed on the Empire's side. Aren't they supposed to be comprised of many different tribes who constantly fight each other? Why then would they ALL simultaneously switch sides? Shouldn't some of them have stayed with the Empire if only because they didn't want to fight alongside other tribes they've rivaled in the past?

[5A1A2A1]

thegharialguy
December 19 2017, 13:59:20
Well they were all forcibly mind controlled into fighting for the empire (some how? Why didn't Galbatorix just mind control the entire Varden to fight themselves if it's that easy. And if it's not that easy, then why didn't the Urgals have any sort of defense against it!? They've been warring with humans and elves for centuries, either they should be wiped out by mind control or practically immune to it). Most of them would hold a pretty sizeable grudge after that.

[5A1A2A1A]

theepistler
December 19 2017, 16:03:12 Edited: December 19 2017, 16:03:52
Except that contradicts the bit in Eldest where Nar Garglewop goes on about how they're changing sides because Galbatorix didn't keep his promises and how his "brood mate" went to ask for an explanation and was never seen again (because "wife" is just not Fantasy enough and Galbatorix is Just That Evil, apparently). Which in turn contradicts the bit in Eragon where we learn that Durza was controlling the Urgals who attacked Helm's Deep Farting Duh and that they all started attacking each other the moment Durza was dead. So apparently even Paolini has no idea what the hell was supposed to be going on with the Urgals (and the Urgals are apparently even dumber than Eragon if they're prepared to start fighting each other when they're in the middle of a battle against a much larger enemy with a fucking DRAGON).

[5A1A2A1A1]

Anonymous
December 19 2017, 21:05:55
Well conceivably that could have happened before the mind control. Although you would expect him to mention the mind control as a salient factor when trying to convince everyone he's on the level.

[5A1A2A1A1A]

theepistler
December 19 2017, 21:13:04
I think Paolini just plain forgot about the whole thing.

[5A1A2B]

torylltales
December 17 2017, 22:47:34
wars like this are never a strict dichotomy, they could have chosen to be rid of the war altogether an settled down to tell stories in some isolated mountain town. I hear Mont Ana is nice.

[5A1A2B1]

theepistler
December 18 2017, 08:52:05
I dunno, I heard it's full of racists.

[6]

snarkbotanya
December 18 2017, 13:46:02
The hyphen-word "uncomfortable-leather-patch-Eragon-seat-saddle" makes me cringe. It also kind of suggests that either a) the person who made that saddle didn't know what the fuck they were doing, b) the Riders don't give a shit about making sure their dragons are comfortable when they fly together, or c) Saphira is a whiny little prima-donna who wants a cushy fur-lined saddle made of silk and rainbows. I think I'll go with c, because it fits with Saphira's character and because Verja sure hasn't found her saddle uncomfortable (if she did, Vanora at least would know).

Saphira as a pangolin... that's... a very interesting mental image.

Also, is there any chance I could get in on the sporking game at some point? I know most (if not all) chapters are already spoken for, but if someone wants to foist a chapter off on someone else, I'd be happy to pick it up, even if it's one of the really infuriating ones. I have a pretty strong stomach for that shit.

[6A]

pipedreamno20
December 18 2017, 14:11:22
If I have any remaining chapters you are more than welcome to them :)

[6B]

theepistler
December 18 2017, 16:50:06
How does Saphira even really notice the saddle if she's coated in scales harder than diamonds?

Random story time! I was at a local fair and the Customs people had a stall there. On display was a strange taxidermy specimen of a large scaly creature. I took one look at it and exclaimed "hey, a pangolin!" The girls manning the booth were both astonished and said "how on earth d'you know that?" The answer was, because I grew up reading the works of Gerald Durrell. :-p

Sadly they're now being slowly driven to extinction thanks to a bunch of idiots killing them for fake does-nothing "traditional" medicine. That or the meat, but I'm pretty sure it was "medicine".

As it happens, Bishop8 has surrendered the next chapter "Four Strokes Upon the Drum" to me, and you're welcome to have it if you would like - otherwise I'll be doing two chapters in a row.

[6C]

hidden_urchin
December 18 2017, 20:49:59
Take "The Tree of Life."

Things have gotten busy for me, so I don't really have time to do it.

[6C1]

theepistler
December 19 2017, 07:37:12
Why is that chapter called that anyway? The Menoa Tree isn't frickin' Yggdrasil; it's just some random magic tree with a murderous elf's corpse inside it. In the interests of honesty the chapter should be called The Tree Of Deranged Jealous Old Elf Murderer.

[6C1A]

thegharialguy
December 19 2017, 14:02:21
The Mrs Robinson Tree. Or for a snappier version, the MILF Tree.

[6C1A1]

theepistler
December 19 2017, 16:05:35
LOL! Perfect.

[6C2]

snarkbotanya
December 19 2017, 16:28:08
That's the chapter that gave me an excuse to do something in Chapter 4 of Consequence, isn't it? Heck yeah, I'll take it!

[6C2A]

hidden_urchin
December 19 2017, 20:10:11
Sweet. Thanks!

[6C2B]

theepistler
December 19 2017, 21:34:57
Okay, consider your name down for it. :) Would you also like the next chapter, or shall I handle it?

[6C2B1]

snarkbotanya
December 21 2017, 10:36:56
Sure, I'll take it!

[6C2B1A]

theepistler
December 21 2017, 15:07:08
Okay, I have put your name down. Now hop to it, soldier!

[7]

pipedreamno20
December 18 2017, 14:08:57
I find myself rereading the Epistles and came across this particular paragraph:

If the Epistler had had the chance to provide a little advice during the writing of Eldest he would have suggested that instead of making Roran and Nasuada new ‘viewpoint’ characters, Saphira should have been allowed to come to the fore. If parts of the story were told from her point of view, it would have been an excellent way to develop her character and show the reader everything that he wanted to know about her. Readers constantly talk about how much Saphira interests them, and if she had been a viewpoint character and there had been various subplots told through her eyes in place of Roran or Nasuada’s subplots, both of which were pointless and uninteresting, it could have been a great improvement.

And now I am sad because - done properly in the right hands at the right time - Saphira POV chapters could have really been enthralling. Instead of this hokey boring shite about Saphira sunning herself and not caring one whit about anything besides ERAGON LEFT ME BEHIND WAH it could have been so much more. "I was expecting... more." says movie!Durza and movie!Eragon yells it right back in their climactic battle scene - now today Pipedream says it wistfully because of this colossal failed opportunity.

[7A]

theepistler
December 18 2017, 16:53:24
I know, right? Talk about "be careful what you wish for, lest you end by getting it". The problem is that I specifically mentioned giving Saphira her own subplots. And this isn't a subplot, because precisely nothing is happening. Thereby rendering the POV switch completely pointless. There's nothing good old Paolini can't completely fumble, is there? Or nothing I've noticed so far.

[7A1]

pipedreamno20
December 18 2017, 17:40:53
Given that Nasuada could have received the ‘message in a mirror’ just as easily - in fact the events of the entire chapter could have been told from her POV it really is a bit silly that it was given to Saphira because she’s totally bored with everything two-legs up until Nas mentions that Eragon asked for her.
Yeah, your character is bored? Guess who else is going to be? The readers.

[7A1A]

theepistler
December 18 2017, 18:00:47 Edited: December 18 2017, 18:01:29
Yeah, why on earth did he think we'd enjoy reading about one of his characters lying around bored off her ass while doing absolutely nothing? Since when was that interesting or fun? Maybe he was subconsciously channeling his own boredom with the story...

It's been said that any given scene should be told from the point of view of the character who has the most at stake, and in this case it most definitely is not Saphira - it's Nasuada. The chapter still would have been pointless, but it could at least have been slightly less mind-numbingly dull.

[7B]

thegharialguy
December 19 2017, 14:04:49
Wait, Epistler was a boy back then?

[7B1]

pipedreamno20
December 19 2017, 14:24:33
The Epistler used boy pronouns for each and every Epistle, yeah. Don’t quote me but I believe this was a stylistic choice for a reason of developing an online character a little more separate to their own IRL self and not necessarily because they were raised as or identified as a boy at the time. Could be wrong.

I went years thinking Epi was a guy. It was interesting to say the least to find out the Epi behind the Epistler shared both my gender and my country.

[7B1A]

theepistler
December 19 2017, 16:07:50
Yup, that's correct. The weird writing style and referring to myself as a guy was a deliberate choice to make it harder for people to figure out who I was. It worked, too.

[7B1A1]

lady_licht
December 19 2017, 18:13:58
And now that changed?

[7B1A1A]

theepistler
December 19 2017, 21:17:29
Yeah, times have changed. The world of Inheritance criticism was a very different place back then. Now, ten years later, KPao has long since given up trying to blackmail people like us into silence and the screaming fanbrats are a thing of the past. And in hindsight, I now realise my precautions were a tad on the paranoid side.

[7B1A1A1]

lady_licht
December 21 2017, 01:11:01
Has anyone ever recognized you and approached you about this, criticising other authors and books the way you do and participating in forums like AS? In a sense of: "You are a "professional", how can you do this" ?

[7B1A1A1A]

theepistler
December 21 2017, 09:19:33
Nope. And quite honestly, I don't think anybody would be particularly shocked or disapproving if they did find out. Writing and criticism have always gone hand in hand, and authors have always criticised each other. In fact it's perfectly common for a group of authors to bitch about books and other things they dislike while socialising. Hell, I've criticised Paolini while chatting with friends and they've had no problem joining in. Literary society is not as nice and polite as it sometimes appears!

[7B1A1A1B]

theepistler
December 21 2017, 09:50:19
With that said, there is one thing that is simply Not Done in literary circles, and that's criticising a friend. I'm friends with at least one author who I privately think can't write to save their grandmother, but I would never dream of saying so here or anywhere else, even if it was under a pseudonym. I have some standards. :-p

[7B1A1A2]

Anonymous
December 19 2017, 21:01:47
A likely story. How do we know you're even telling the truth now!? I bet your really an gender neutral were at from Mali!

[7B1A1A2A]

theepistler
December 19 2017, 21:29:17 Edited: December 19 2017, 21:29:36
How do we know you're even telling the truth now!?

The truth is... you don't! For all you know I'm not even the Epistler at all and have been lying about it all along! Well that's the internet for you. You can never be 100% sure about anybody.

[8]

syntinen_laulu
December 19 2017, 04:15:54
There follows almost two pages of italicised dialogue, as they discuss and rationalise Nasuada's decision to uphold well-advertised laws and consequences.

Does the discussion anywhere include the most pressing and vital issue of all: namely, that unless the Urgals see the perpetrator of this unprovoked cowardly murder promptly beheaded or swinging from a branch, they are probably - and entirely understandably - going to come for the Varden and slaughter them?

[8A]

theepistler
December 19 2017, 07:35:16
Nope.

[9]

cmdrnemo
December 21 2017, 06:18:42
I'm seeing some problems with the way leadership in general is approached here. He's just transformed his orcs into Klingons. Then had his puppets sign them on as full members of the good guys club and integrated them with open arms. At this point obvious backlash is obvious. So it's included to get it out of the way. Then we hit the problem. His leaders, like the leaders of most stories from immature storytellers, do not deal in probabilities. They can't be seen not knowing what to do. Not in control. In his stories the king can stare down a hungry bear in a tornado with utter confidence. Because mundane things don't happen to powerful people. So they can't acknowledge the risk of reprisal. There cannot be any risk of reprisal. But, obviously to the rest of us. You don't get much of a story if no one ever takes any risks. Then he's in a position where he's trying to show the logical consequences of actions, without ever letting anyone even risk facing those consequences. He's trying to do that while shoving more of the dragon into the story. Even though he has no interest in either the dragon or the story. And the whole thing turns into a complete disastertastrophy of logical impossibilities and irrelevant lip service.

[9A]

theepistler
December 21 2017, 09:59:06
That's true. In fact at the beginning of the very next book Nasuada actually comes out and says she refuses to so much as think about the possibility of Galbatorix attacking the Varden personally! Seriously! Rather than plan for that extremely serious eventuality which could wipe out the ENTIRE VARDEN, she decides to just wing it and pretend it couldn't possibly happen! How is she a good and wise leader, again?

[10]

Moris Kurth
December 22 2017, 03:37:50
To be fair, a dragon with the scales of a Pangolin would certainly look awesome. Not to mention that local humanoids could probably make some neat gear out of shedded scales... I have an Idea I need to write down!!