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pangolin20) wrote in as_sporkive2024-05-14 05:17 pm
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Brisinger Spork Chapter 48: Souls of Stone
thegharialguy wrote in Antishurtugal, 2018-08-02 12:02:00
Brisinger Spork Chapter 48: Souls of Stone
Anyone ever see Dragonheart? An old 90s film with some surprisingly decent CGI. I bring it up because I’m pretty sure Paolini stole the entire concept of Eldunari from this film. When I first read the book I assumed both Paolini and Dragonheart were taking their material from a shared origin, but given what I now know of Paolini’s track record, I find this pretty doubtful. And even if Dragonheart does take its premise for some genuine lore, the movie came out in 1996, right when Paolini was at the age of the target audience. I’m not sure how well known this connection is, I’ve never seen it mentioned on this site in my time here, but it’s so blatant that I can’t help but think someone’s connected the dots before.
[Caption: Film poster for Dragonheart]
To summarize, in Dragonheart, dragons are born with an organ in their body they can regurgitate and give to a human. Unlike in Inheritance, the heart seems to actually be placed inside the human. The human gets enhanced strength and longevity as a result and are intrinsically bonded to the dragon.
The Eldinari are obviously also referred to as dragon hearts and have the same general traits of connecting one to a dragon regardless of distance. You’d think Dragonheart would be a generic “a boy and his dragon,” story, but it actually plays things a little more interesting. It does have a guy who’s partnered with a dragon, but the person the dragon gave his heart to is actually the villain who’s using his unchallenged dragon powers to be a tyrant (the dragon gave the villain his heart when the villain was a child, and was actually doing it for selfish reasons as he needed to do a certain number of good deeds to get into dragon heaven and wasn’t really thinking about the dying kid at all). The hero is basically a bad ass normal who happens to be friends with a dragon. As far as movies go, it’s not that great, but it’s not entirely terrible either.
Now I don’t really mind this sort of plagiarism. As ultimately, while the mechanics are similar, the two plots aren’t actually that alike (despite the villain in Inheritance also getting his power from dragon hearts). I just don’t think Paolini has ever once mentioned Dragonheart, and I find the similarities just far too similar to discount. In this chapter, Galeder even warns of a young dragon acting rash and doing exactly what the dragon in the film did in giving his heart away too eagerly to please someone (be it a rider or some kind of dragon heaven judgement system). If it’s confessed, it’s a homage, but if Paolini touts it as his own original ideas, then it’s kind of shameful. Now I haven’t actually scoured any of Paolni’s dozens of interviews to see if this is the case (maybe I’m the first one to ever draw this connection despite the film literally being called Dragonheart and Eldunari also being called Dragon Hearts), maybe he has revealed he did take inspiration from the film, but the Inheritance wiki and a basic google search doesn’t reveal it to be so.
Enough of that anyway, on to the spork. Our chapter opens up with Oromis offering to show Eragon a photo of his mother. Which I actually think is rather nice and sweet. Still really dickish that Oromis never did this before now, but still, context aside, it is rather nice. Eragon hasn’t just found his true father, he’s finally discovered his mother too. Despite knowing her name all his life, he knew basically nothing about her until now. So acknowledging that she’s just a big a part of this reveal as Brom is kind of cool (well, she isn’t quite as big a part as Brom, but I appreciate that they acknowledge her at all and don’t just treat her as a baby factory).
Also, side note, Orimis takes the photo out of that hammerspace known as the “folds” in his tunic as characters are frequently known to do in this series. I really question why it’s there. Either A) Oromis went and grabbed it while Eragon was sharing that moment with Saphira (logical…but then why did he choose to hide it in his tunic?) or B) Oromis has always had a picture of Eragon’s mother hidden beneath his shirt which just brings up a whole host of unsavory questions.
So Eragon gazes at the photo for a while before they move on to serious business. Why are Galbatorix and Murtagh so strong? Oromis defers to Glaedr to explain. We also get a description of Glaedr’s eye as being “as large as a round shield.” A round shield is about the size of a person’s forearm in diameter.
[Caption: Multiple images of a round shield]
That’s the size of Glaedr’s eye. His freaking eye. Glaedr is absolutely freaking massive, and Shuriken is even bigger!? I really don’t see any benefit to riding these things into combat aside from given the dragon moral support. A sword, the thing Eragon’s going to spend the next few chapters obsessing over, would be absolutely useless being wielded from the back of something that colossal.
Back on topic, this is what Glaedr has to say about the Eldunari
“When a dragon hatches, their Eldunarí is clear and lusterless. Usually it remains so all through a dragon’s life and dissolves along with the dragon’s corpse when they die. However, if we wish, we can transfer our consciousness into the Eldunarí. Then it will acquire the same color as our scales and begin to glow like a coal. If a dragon has done this, the Eldunarí will outlast the decay of their flesh, and a dragon’s essence may live on indefinitely.
Also, a dragon can disgorge their Eldunarí while they are still alive. By this means, a dragon’s body and a dragon’s consciousness can exist separately and yet still be linked, which can be most useful in certain circumstances. But to do this exposes us to great danger, for whosoever holds our Eldunarí holds our very soul in their hands. With it, they could force us to do their bidding, no matter how vile.”
One thing I just noticed here, is that a dragon can awaken their Eldunari without regurgitating it, which I find somewhat interesting. In fact, Glaedr says they can “also” regurgitate it, implying that it’s actually pretty common for dragons to put their consciousness in their Eldunari without doing so. That could make for an interesting plot point where a dragon is seemingly dead, but then someone cuts them open to find the Eldunari still alive. I suppose maybe that’s an explanation as to how Galbatorix got so many, as painful as it might be to exist as an Eldunari, I could see a lot of people choosing that option out of panic when it looks like they’re on death’s door. Something Glaedr also mentions is that someone who possess an Eldunari can control a dragon. I’m not sure if this is a literal thing like using true names, or if someone can basically blackmail a dragon into doing whatever they wish by threatening to smash one, regardless, it does beg the question as to why Galbatorix killed the dragons when it seems he easily could have enslaved them. Eragon quizzes Saphira about the Eldunari and she admits she knew about them the whole time yet kept it from him. Partner of his heart and soul, lying to him yet again. This one in particular makes me really confused and question if Paolini actually had the ending of the series planned out. You think he would have foreshadowed this at least once (and no, the vault of souls is not foreshadowing as its way too vague and could have referred to anything at the time), but instead, he actively hid the information from the protagonist and in a really contrived way. Glaedr told Saphira about the Eldunari and told her not to tell Eragon, but throughout all of Eldest, Saphira and Eragon were constantly linked together in mind. Eragon was subconsciously observing all of Saphira’s lessons and vice versa. For Glaedr or Oromis to sneak in some hidden information is basically impossible. Paolini could have built some intrigue by having a scene where Eragon is inexplicably cut off from Saphira’s observations for a time and he questions her about it later to no avail, but as far as I remember Eldest, nothing of the sort happened. It’s just a retcon that Saphira got told all this stuff before while Eragon wasn’t. Eragon’s at least a little pissed about all this needless deception, but not enough to actually cause any conflict. Glaedr continues to explain things.
“In the wild, a dragon would learn about his Eldunarí from one of his elders when he was old enough to understand the use of it. That way, a dragon would not transfer themself into their heart of hearts without knowing the full import of their actions. Among the Riders, a different custom arose. The first few years of partnership between a dragon and a Rider are crucial to establishing a healthy relationship between the two, and the Riders discovered that it was better to wait until newly joined Riders and dragons were well familiar with each other before informing them of the Eldunarí. Otherwise, in the reckless folly of youth, a dragon might decide to disgorge his heart of hearts merely to appease or impress his Rider. When we give up our Eldunarí, we are giving up a physical embodiment of our entire being. And we cannot return it to its original place within our bodies once it is gone. A dragon should not undertake the separation of their consciousness lightly, for it will change how they live the rest of their lives, even if they should endure for another thousand years.”
This passage kind of irritates me. Glaedr swaps between using “he” and “they” to describe nonspecific dragons. I’d much prefer “they” over “he” (cause, you know, there’s plenty of female dragons too), but if you’re going to go with he, then at least be consistent with it.
Oromis goes on to explain how the riders were complacent as they had a complete monopoly over the world, so most dragons freely gave out their Eldunari for convenience. It’s treated as a pretty stupid thing, but I also find it quite unbelievable. For starters, living as a stone is not a great existence. In the heat of the moment it might seem preferable to death, but I don’t think it’s a decision anyone would take lightly, least of all immortal beings who don’t need to do something like that to escape death unless their physical body was threatened (which it really isn’t because they basically have no enemies). Second of all, I don’t see how it’s actually all that convenient. Riders and dragons would have basically no reason to be apart. Being able to talk to your dragon over long distances sounds great, but only if you have some reason to be massively separated from your dragon. The other alternative is that the dragons were giving their Eldunari to people other than their riders, which makes little sense due to the whole “gaining complete control of them should you have it,” thing. If I had an eldunari, I don’t think I’d entrust it to anyone but the person who I’m mentally linked to.
“A brilliantly colored hummingbird interrupted their conversation by darting across the table. Its wings a throbbing blur, the bird hovered over the bowls of fruit and lapped at the liquid oozing from a crushed blackberry, then flitted up and away, vanishing among the trunks of the forest.”
This paragraph’s interrupts Oromis’ speech. It serves no purpose. It doesn’t even break up the conversation, as Oromis hadn’t even been talking for that long at this point. I don’t mind some slight observations to retain mood and setting during a conversation, but an entire paragraph like this is just jarring in its irrelevance.
“And of course, once Galbatorix and the Forsworn sacked the city of Doru Araeba on the island of Vroengard, he gained possession of the entire hoard of Eldunarí stored therein.”
But, didn’t a rider blow himself up to prevent exactly that from happening? Oromis should know this. Why is he lying to Eragon? This is the Vault of Souls, the first actual mention of a thing that’s been foreshadowed since the first book, and it completely clashes with what it established in the next book. After Galby defeated the riders, he spent forty years trying to break the mind of every dragon under his control. He then spent two and a half years actually doing his job as a tyrant before he grew bored of that and started working on finding the true name of names. I believe this is the only time these two and a half years of Galbatorix actually acting like a villain are mentioned, which is a real shame as it should be a major part of the justification as to why everyone hates him so much. It also says Surda seceded during the first forty years, which doesn’t seem to make sense. If Galbatorix spent two and a half years causing “additional slaughter and sorrow,” why on earth did he allow Surda to remain independent? He was in full overlord mode, he should have crushed Surda like a bear crushes an ant (to take from a simile I’m sure the series uses at some point). The only possible explanation is that Galbatorix has absolutely no problem with Surda’s existence and this two and a half years of terror are an exaggeration on Oromis’ part.
“His vices are many, but he has not abandoned himself to debauchery; that much the Varden’s spies have determined.”
Okay, so Galbatrox doesn’t have a harem…is that relevant in any way? And what vices does he have if not sex? Is he a total glutton? I don’t recall him being described as obese in the next book. Does he have a weakness for gambling? Illogical as he basically owns everything already. You’ve forced in a completely contrived line to try and characterize your villain here Paolini yet you somehow have managed to give him even less character than he had before.
“Lost deep in thought, Eragon stared off into the distance. For the first time, all of the stories he had heard about Galbatorix’s unnatural power made sense.”
What stories Eragon? Seriously, this is something the narrative has established since like the beginning of the series, but it leans extremely heavy on the tell don’t show side of things. We have zero stories about Galbatorix’s feats of strength. The only power he’s confirmed to have at this point is a keen ability to break minds, guess people’s name and kick people in the balls. Yet everyone’s shit scared of how powerful he’s become. I made a dedicated article about this once noting how this should be a major aspect of the book. His powers should be met with either skepticism from the Varden or reinforced by including defectors from his court. It didn’t get much traffic, which is a shame since I think I had some good ideas. Check it out here if you missed it https://antishurtugal.livejournal.com/1014294.html
Eragon asks the pretty rational question as to why Eldunari aren’t in the myths and stories about dragons (like the previous two chapters, it stinks of Paolini trying to answer something before fans complain, but I wouldn’t give Eragon too much flak for trying to use his brain for once). Oromis’ response isn’t that convincing. He says it was to protect Eldunari due to how powerful they are. Which, fair enough, you don’t want any old idiot getting their hands on one, but it seems pretty unlikely nobody in history managed to find out; especially when it’s confirmed that the old order of riders started acting very laze faire about the whole thing.
“A dragon who has disgorged their Eldunarí but who still enjoys the use of their flesh can, of course, defend their heart with their claws and their fangs and their tail and with the battering of their wings. A dragon whose body is dead, however, possesses none of those advantages. Their only weapon is the weapon of their mind and, perhaps, if the moment is right, the weapon of magic, which we cannot command at will. That is one reason why many dragons did not choose to prolong their existence beyond the demise of their flesh. To be unable to move of your own volition, to be unable to sense the world around you except through the minds of others, and to only be able to influence the course of events with your thoughts and with rare and unpredictable flashes of magic; it would be a difficult existence to embrace for most any creature, but especially dragons, who are the freest of all beings.”
I do appreciate that they don’t glorify how useful Eldunari are, and how living as one could be pretty hellish. They also go on to say it’s typically pretty old dragons that do it in the first place and they treat it more like ascending to a higher plane of existence to contemplate the meaning of life. However, this passage also includes an element that is never addressed again and makes no sense. Dragons can still use magic as Eldunari. Dragon magic breaks all of the rules and is extremely powerful. It’s basically the sort of stuff Eragon used to defeat Galabatorix. So, not once, in the four decades it took Galbatorix to subdue the hundreds of Eldunari, did the urge to use magic ever come to them. They even go on to mention that the Eldunari sometimes even commit suicide using magic, yet none of them, or at least, not a significant portion of them, managed to do this when they were being mind raped by Galbatorix. He should have just made it so they can’t use magic as Eldunari. Case closed, no plot hole. Well, actually, I guess the Eldunari from the vault to help Eragon to cast that last spell and manipulate his entire life, so it does crop up again, but if anything that just reinforces my point. They have the means to deal damage to Galbatorix but never do without the protagonist to lead the way.
[Caption: Three-panel comic.
First panel: Abu from Aladdin brandishes a sword.
Second panel: Several guards recoil. Text: 'He's got a sword!'
Third panel: More guards arrive. Text: 'You idiots! We've all got swords!']
I was too lazy to replaze sword with magic.
Eragon goes onto ask how Eldunari have energy when they don’t eat, which again is a logical question, but by now the chapter has really started to over explain its subject matter. It’s better to pace these things, including them over the course of the book or series, instead of dumping them at the readers feet and going “you might think this creates a lot of plot holes, but I’ve thought of this, and this, and this etc.” It doesn’t help that Oromis’ answers are pretty weak. Somehow the Eldunari gain all the energy from their body when their body dies (ignoring the rules of distance it seems, and also ignoring the fact that if you’re dead, then you’ve probably run out of energy in this setting given all the healing magic and wards etc) and then again, somehow, actually grow even stronger for the next few years before reaching a cap. Narratively speaking, this power increase has no real reason to exist other than to build up Galbatorix, which is unnecessary as he already is confirmed to have hundreds of the things (although Galbatorix might be wrong about that number if he thinks Galby has the Vault of Souls, but for the purpose of building up the villain it’s moot as the reader is led to believe he has hundreds at this point).
Paolini then goes on to praise himself for foreshadowing the Eldunari plot twist with the battle against Murtagh earlier in the book. Just don’t do that Paolini, have some faith in your audience’s intelligence. We can work out what those hints mean in retrospect. And also, if you’re going to foreshadow, do it in the previous book. This just makes it look like you came up with the idea when writing this book (which might be the case).
Oromis says he scoured the continent with his mind looking for any Eldunari outside of Galbatorix’s control and found nothing. I guess the dragons in the vault just didn’t trust Oromis which…good call guys. The chapter finally ends on another picked and dropped topic as they discuss what it’s like to lose your rider after becoming an Eldunari. Again, a nice bit of lore to consider and discuss, but dumping it way too heavy on the reader in this chapter. This conversation really should have happened in Eldest, and not the end of Eldest, somewhere near the middle. Eragon never should have been kept in the dark about the Eldunari. It’s a major element of the world and the final battle of the series, it should have been introduced, or at the very least properly hinted at, much earlier and been allowed to develop at a natural pace. Instead we get a large exposition dump and before we even fully wrap our head around the implications of it, Glaedr is giving Eragon his Eldunari and Oromis is dying. When I was young, I read Eragon and absolutely loved it. I read Eldest and was less thrilled, but I was still invested in the series. This is the book that really made me stop and realize what I was reading was not good, and I think I attribute that more so to this scene than the dwarf elections or Eragon’s jaunt through the empire alone. Those things were filler, I can forgive filler being bad, but this is critical information that is integral to the series and it’s massively fumbled. I’ll give him props for the title though. Souls of Stone sounds pretty cool and manages to be quite accurate.
Next chapter is Hands of a Warrior. I don’t know who’s sporking it because I don’t have the list, but I hope we can see it in less than a month. We’ve been at this a while now and I think we’re finally seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.
[1]
thegharialguy
August 2 2018, 13:17:23
Could someone post the list of Brisingr chapters that are left and who's due to spork them? I think with the decision to do this Eragon spork, we should try and bring this Brisinger one to a close sooner rather than later, and everyone knowing how much is required of them might help. I think I have one chapter left during the climax, but I'm not completely sure.
[1A]
theepistler
August 2 2018, 17:56:38 Edited: August 2 2018, 17:56:53
Not a problem - here are the remaining chapters. And I agree - it's really high time we wrapped this thing up. I'll get on to sporking the next chapter right away.
Hands of a Warrior – Epistler
The Tree of Life – Snarkbotanya
Mind over Metal – Hergrim
A Rider in Full – Epistler
Greaves and Bracers – minionnumber2
Leave-taking – Epistler
Flight – Pipedream
Brisingr! - Anya
Shadows of Doom – thegharialguy
Sunrise- Epistler
[1A1]
torylltales
August 2 2018, 21:44:56
I'm happy to take another of your four chapters, Epi, if you want to cut back.
[1A1A]
theepistler
August 3 2018, 13:07:19
Which one would you like?
[1A1A1]
torylltales
August 3 2018, 13:25:53
I kind of have my eye on Sunrise, if I can. If I recall, that's a particularly terrible one.
Plus, you know how much I like to have the last word :P
[1A2]
thegharialguy
August 2 2018, 23:13:49 Edited: August 2 2018, 23:42:34
I'm up for taking anyone's too. I only actually had three chapters in this book, including the one still yet to do. Aside from you, there's one chapter for everyone, so I'd recommend we all start writing our sporks simultaneously, or at least the next two or three chapters simultaneously. If we do that, then we could probably get the thing finished in a month.
[1A3]
cmdrnemo
August 3 2018, 05:03:47
Hergrim backed out of Mind over Metal. That one is on me.
[2]
theepistler
August 2 2018, 18:12:33
I watched Dragonheart on TV when I was a kid! I LOVED it. It's still an old favourite of mine. And, though this will probably make me sound like a complete loon, the trashy direct to DVD sequel had its moments too. Well okay, one moment - the big reveal at the climax that the villain was really a dragon robbed of his heart and trapped in human form was really cool and genuinely surprised me. The protagonist, however, was basically Eragon before Eragon. In fact I recommend watching the movie just to see the parallels for yourself. He's whiny, he's entitled, he's ridiculously arrogant despite being a nobody, and he treats the "good" dragon character like shit. Plus the dragon himself is a complete loser easily manipulated by everyone he comes across (as a result of which he gets manipulated and used by, well, everybody including the bad guys and the good guys).
Like I said, it's trash. Albeit trash that had one good idea to offer.
This chapter just slays me, and for a couple of reasons, the largest of which is that right after a chapter in which we're told "intelligence" is the key to victory, the author introduces literal power-up tokens. Hell, there was apparently a video game which used the exact same concept - the crystalised remains of magical creatures, used as power-up tokens by the villain. I wouldn't go so far as to say Paolini stole the concept from Dragonheart (though I definitely don't dismiss the possibility), if only because it's just so painfully cliched.
This chapter also does an excellent job of devaluing the dragon characters even further. Not only are Saphira and Glaedr completely superfluous characters, and not only has Saphira done precisely nothing so far in this entire book despite getting her own POV chapters, but we now learn that dragons are basically just magic batteries, to the point that they don't even need live bodies to be blithely exploited by both (alleged) heroes and (alleged) villains.
The other thing that slays me in this chapter is Glaedr's claim that dragons are "the freest of all beings". Glaedr, you're a glorified pet. You're literally bound to another person for your entire LIFE, with absolutely no chance of ever being a completely autonomous being since before you even hatched. And on top of that, you're about to hand your soul to Eragon on a silver platter and thereafter be used as a power-up token slash dispenser of information. In what sense are you in any way "free"? Or Saphira either, for that matter? Given the chapter this line happened to appear in, it just becomes even more ironic.
[2A]
thegharialguy
August 2 2018, 23:15:59 Edited: August 2 2018, 23:18:42
I actually seen the trashy Dragonheart sequel before watching the original, that's why I was so surprised that the original played things more interesting with an adult protagonist that isn't psychically bond to the dragon. The sequel plays the entire the concept completely straight, it's basically a proto Eragon. Upon researching for this spork, I actually discovered there's been some more movies released recently on Netflix if you want to check them out for nostalgia's sake.
I've seen crystallized remains being used as a power up several times before, most noteably Final Fantasy VI. But the thing that I call foul on with the Dragon Hearts is that both power ups literally have the same name and can be extracted from the dragon without death being needed. Like, really the only difference is that you can get most of the powers without getting the Eldinwhatever in Inheritance.
[2A1]
theepistler
August 3 2018, 10:05:31
Yeah, it's proto Eragon all right. It's truly amazing how closely bad fantasy stories align to each other - there are so many constants it's almost scary. One of the most common of which is the snotty protagonist.
I actually own Dragonheart 3 on DVD, but haven't gotten around to watching it yet.
[2B]
Anonymous
August 3 2018, 06:15:33
“We now learn that dragons are basically just magic batteries”
Here’s what the Inheritance wiki says about one of the uses of Eldunarí:
“The Eldunarí can increase the Mental powers of the user, or not if the user is mentally incapable. They can increase both the range and mental strength of the user to both be able to withstand and attack the minds of others. The increase is proportional to the size of the Eldunarí at the time of disgorgement.”
It reads like the text for a magic boosting item (or magical battery) in an RPG.
[2B1]
theepistler
August 3 2018, 10:07:41
Note the repeated use of the word "user". Because THAT'S not dehumanising at all. The elundari are literally treated like objects rather than, y'know, sentient beings. No wonder the ones in the vault of souls were so keen on fucking with people - that is until they hand themselves over to Durragon to give him a free mana boost, after which he also treats them like objects.
[3]
snarkbotanya
August 2 2018, 19:44:50
B) Oromis has always had a picture of Eragon’s mother hidden beneath his shirt which just brings up a whole host of unsavory questions.
New headcanon: Oromis faps to the fairth of Eragon's mom.
But, didn’t a rider blow himself up to prevent exactly that from happening? Oromis should know this. Why is he lying to Eragon?
I think what happened here was Paolini forgetting his own plot again. Or possibly not having worked that part out yet and just writing by the seat of his pants. Or both, somehow.
Okay, so Galbatrox doesn’t have a harem…is that relevant in any way?
This conflicts with Murtagh's "playing with his concubines" line, actually. My conclusion? Galbatorix had a lover or two, and Murtagh's bias was talking when he called them concubines.
[3A]
theepistler
August 2 2018, 20:22:57
I think what happened here was Paolini forgetting his own plot again.
Or maybe it's surprisingly subtle foreshadowing of the fact that Oromis' memory has been tampered with to protect the existence of the Deus Ex Machinari?
This conflicts with Murtagh's "playing with his concubines" line, actually.
I love how we're supposed to see Galby as "bad" because he has concubines. Unlike the virginal Eragon who has his One True Love who he's apparently saving himself for. And never mind that Ergs is a stalkerish Nice Guy, or that there's nothing wrong with liking sex and having it outside of a monogamous relationship. Now, if the "concubines" were true name slaves or otherwise being coerced into sleeping with Galbatorix, that would be evil. But honestly, I suspect we're just supposed to assume they're a bunch of worthless sluts who are Evil and Bad for enjoying sex outside the marriage bed (the way God intended). Why? Because it's a moral judgement you get in a lot of very traditional fantasy, and this series is nothing if not traditional.
I'm betting if Book Five ever happens, there will be a Shocking Revelation that Galbatorix had a secret kid, almost certainly a son, if only because that's just how Paolini rolls. Now, if the kid in question was the protagonist out to avenge his father, I'd read the hell out of it on principle. But instead Paolini will just cast him as the villain, because we all know how much he loves playing Generation Xerox.
[3A1]
syntinen_laulu
August 2 2018, 22:03:17
But honestly, I suspect we're just supposed to assume they're a bunch of worthless sluts who are Evil and Bad for enjoying sex outside the marriage bed (the way God intended).
Or just whores who don't mind pleasuring the Big Bad so long as he pays them well, or graciously offs their un-friends in return for their performing particularly unspeakable acts.
[3A1A]
theepistler
August 3 2018, 13:11:53
Nothin' wrong with a little whoring! It's the world's oldest profession! :-p
[3A1A1]
thegharialguy
August 3 2018, 17:41:06
How did people pay the whores if there were no other jobs?
[3A1A1A]
theepistler
August 3 2018, 23:20:28
It's mostly just an old saying, albeit with some basis in fact.
Interestingly, a scientific study proved that even monkeys understand the concept of prostitution.
[3A1A1A1]
thegharialguy
August 3 2018, 23:40:39
Actually I was already aware of both.
[3A1A1A1A]
theepistler
August 3 2018, 23:42:00
Then why the flip did you ask?!
[3A1A1A1A1]
thegharialguy
August 3 2018, 23:56:18
To see what you'd say.
[3A1A1A1A1A]
theepistler
August 4 2018, 00:06:33
Oooh, you sly bastard!
Did I pass?
[3A1A1A1A1A1]
thegharialguy
August 4 2018, 00:15:29
It's not something one passes or fails.
[3A1A1A1A1A1A]
theepistler
August 4 2018, 00:22:24
[Caption: Yoda quote: 'Do or do not. There is no try.]
[3A1B]
theepistler
August 3 2018, 23:32:14
Huh, apparently LJ sorted itself out - I just now got an email notifying me about this comment. :-/
[3A2]
thegharialguy
August 2 2018, 23:34:40 Edited: August 2 2018, 23:36:24
We do like to play up Galbatorix's morality compared to the heroes, but given his MO, I find it highly unlikely that he didn't have true name slaves serving him, if he does have concubines (which this chapter seems to refute). Snarkbot's conclusion seems to be the most reasonable way to solve this contradiction/retcon (although concubine wouldn't be entirely inaccurate a term to call any loves he had, regardless of number or emotional closeness).
[3A2A]
theepistler
August 3 2018, 09:55:06
I rolled my eyes so hard when Nasuada asked Murtagh if Galbatorix loved any of his concubines. Because of course the answer is no because he so evil, y'all. God forbid the evil villain of evilness have any actual human qualities or anything silly like that.
[4]
Anonymous
August 2 2018, 20:13:59
1) On the humongous size of Glaedr or whatever it's called -I think the largest D&D wyrms are similar in size, even if in AD&D that would be just an adult dragon-. Anyway, that transforms the dragon just in the equivalent of a large and quite nasty armored gunship, where the rider is just transported from one place to another. Unless the latter is a magic user, he/she's pretty useless (and, by the way, it would be cool if when dragons get larger and larger as they grow, even if they're stronger and nastier (breath weapon, spells) they'd get clumsier and spend more time sleeping (some square-cube law). And, of course, unless the rider rivals in power with the dragon, the former is pretty much useless as the latter can wipe out armies alone if it's so large.
2) Saw Dragonheart long ago and liked it, especially the ending (there's a Draco constellation in real life and it's a cool way to see it instead of the typical snake-like representation of it).
[5]
torylltales
August 2 2018, 21:10:24 Edited: August 2 2018, 21:11:56
I would argue the Dragonheart thing. Dragonheart uses theBeat Still, My Heart variation of the Soul Jar; whereas in the IC, Paolini uses the Sealed Badass In A Can variation. (Eldulari are also different to the traditional concept of a Soul Jar, because the Jar cannot be used for resurrection, and they add a large element of existential horror/torture). Similar, but different enough that it doesn't feel like a ripoff to me.
And in Dragonheart, it isn't "an organ" that dragons can "dislodge" and give to people, it's literally half of the dragon's heart, magically(?) severed and transplanted into a human's chest in place of their own heart. And a human and dragon so connected are not "intrinsically bonded" in anywhere near the same way as a Rider and their dragon's eldunari, it's more like a physiological homeostasis than a psychological connection.
[5A]
thegharialguy
August 2 2018, 23:40:07
Well they're not mentally connected, but the human still gets enhanced physical strength, immortality and a life link to the dragon, if the dragon dies, the human dies too (while vice versa doesn't seem to be true as a human with a dragon heart appears to be nigh on indestructible). As I said above, the biggest reason I draw the connection is that they're literally called the same thing, and the movie came out not long before Paolini started writing the series.
[6]
Anonymous
August 3 2018, 02:40:19
but then someone cuts them open to find the Eldunari still alive. I suppose maybe that’s an explanation as to how Galbatorix got so many
I think it's said either here or in the next book that Galbatorix or the Forsworn would torture a rider or dragon until they gave up their Eldunari. Something like that
"You think he would have foreshadowed this at least once (and no, the vault of souls is not foreshadowing as its way too vague and could have referred to anything at the time), but instead, he actively hid the information from the protagonist and in a really contrived way. Glaedr told Saphira about the Eldunari and told her not to tell Eragon, but throughout all of Eldest, Saphira and Eragon were constantly linked together in mind. Eragon was subconsciously observing all of Saphira’s lessons and vice versa. For Glaedr or Oromis to sneak in some hidden information is basically impossible. Paolini could have built some intrigue by having a scene where Eragon is inexplicably cut off from Saphira’s observations for a time and he questions her about it later to no avail, but as far as I remember Eldest, nothing of the sort happened. It’s just a rectcon that Saphira got told all this stuff before while Eragon wasn’t."
I think the only foreshadowing for Eludunari is one line of dialogue between Saphira and Glaedr when they leave in Eldest. Glaedr says something along the lines of "keep your heart, safe."
[6A]
thegharialguy
August 3 2018, 03:03:01
I think he goes as far as to say hearts plural, which, well it helps, but cryptic references like that aren't good foreshadowing. I've actually considered making an article on the good and bad foreshadowing in the series, because it does have some good examples, a good example being the true name of the Ancient Language and what it can do. Eragon asks the question in the first book and Brom speculates on the results, it works because it feels like a natural thing to wonder (does this thing I just discovered have a name) and seems to exist to further explain how names work and influence things in the setting. Conversely, a very bad example of foreshadowing is in Brisingr when the Raz'Ac tries to tell Eragon that Galbatorix is looking for the Name'o'Names. It's contrived, vague and covered in bells and whistles that say "hey, this is relevant! Bet you don't know what it means!" And it really wasn't that hard to guess, at least for anyone who remembered the first bit of foreshadowing.
[6A1]
Anonymous
August 3 2018, 07:17:47
Different anon, but I have to add that Paolini really went above and beyond his usual by not only having that one throwaway line, but two throwaway lines total on the subject of Eldunari. I don’t remember where, but there was a sentence in the middle of Eldest where Eragon is blocked out of a conversation between Sapphire and Glaedr and he supposes that they were talking about secrets only known to the dragons or something. The only reason I remember is because immediately upon reading that line, I wondered if humans had secrets dragons didn’t know and thought a lot more on that strain than I should have.
[6A1A]
thegharialguy
August 3 2018, 11:21:31
Oh so there is a line like that? That's more decent foreshadowing and is likely referenced here, but if Saphira and Glaedr suddenly broke of connection with him, Eragon should have made more of a fuss and actually acknowledged it beyond a throwaway line.
[6A1A1]
theepistler
August 3 2018, 13:12:55
Yeah, as I recall there actually is a bit during the training chapters in Eldest where we're told Glaedr is teaching Saphira dragon lore which Durragon isn't privy to.
[6A2]
Anonymous
August 4 2018, 23:11:36
Same amon: I agree, it could also be reffering to Eragon too. As I guess Eragon could be Saphira's heart?
[7]
Anonymous
August 3 2018, 03:18:01
After reading this sporking, three things about theEldunarí Eldunarya bother me: the secrecy surrounding them, their magic, and their purpose. So here's a rant about them.
1) Secrecy
I'm not bothered by the fact that the Riders kept the Eldunarya a secret. It makes sense to keep them secret. What doesn't make sense is how there are absolutely no myths about them, even ones that are only loosely connected to the Eldunarya. You'd think that there would be legends on how dragons have two literal hearts or that they have gems stored in their body, but there aren't any, at least according to Oromis. The fact that Eragon was kept in the dark about the Eldunarya also makes zero sense. Wouldn't Saphira told him about hers early on, such as when she first started talking? And even if she didn't, it makes zero sense as to why Brom and Oromis would not tell the only "capable" dragon rider about Galbatorix's source of power.
2) Magic
In this chapter, Glaedr says that Eldunarya can't control their magic. If so, then why could the Vault of Souls Eldunarya manipulate events in Alagaësia so precisely, such as moving Saphira's egg to Eragon when it was teleported. Seems pretty convenient that they just happened to be able to unleash their magic at that time and send the egg near the right person. Even as magical rocks, dragons continue to be Deus ex Machinas.
3) Purpose
I believe that the books said that before the riders formed, dragons would use their Eldunarya to teach younger dragons stuff (I could be wrong on this since the wiki doesn't mention it, but I swear that's in Brisingr). Why such an organ would be needed in immortal dragons makes no sense, especially since the dragons A) have no natural predators, and B) could just use their holodeck features to teach, rather than trap themselves in a rock. And the Eldunarya's purpose after the riders formed makes little sense either. Why doom yourself to a fate worse than death just so that your rider can talk to you over long distances or use you like a battery? Couldn't someone just enchant two rings or whatever to do the same thing? Its a shame that Eldunarya, like dragon magic, had so much potential but turned out so ridiculous.
[8]
ultramega10
August 3 2018, 08:06:50
So let's recap. We are 48 chapters in this book and the only thing that has happened is the death of the Raz'zac. Who died in... was it chapter 3?
Worst book in the series. Definitely worst.
[8A]
Anonymous
August 3 2018, 08:54:18
Agreed... I remember to have skipped long sections of it as they were also quite boring and apported little, if any.
[8B]
theepistler
August 12 2018, 14:13:54
Every book in the series is the worst book in the series. :-p
But this one is definitely up there in terms of sheer pointlessness.
[9]
syntinen_laulu
August 3 2018, 20:06:50
I would bet serious money on Paolini having got the idea from Dragonheart, if only because grabbing plots, themes and tropes from other people's stories and sellotaping them together is his consistent MO. (Heck, when he was young and green and his publishers hadn't yet explained to him that there was something called 'plagiarism', he as good as admitted it on British TV.)
But, as is also pretty consistent with Paolini, he has totally failed to grasp the logic and function of the trope he is using, or even consider that there should be any. The motif of the External Soul occurs, as James Frazer pointed out, 'from Hindoostan to the Hebrides', and where it occurs it makes perfect sense. A wizard/giant/ogre/king has a very sound motive for keeping his soul safely in an egg in a bird in a tree in a dark forest in an island in an immense ocean: it means he can go about harming people as much as he likes with impunity, because nobody can kill him, and the countervailing risk that if anybody does get hold of his soul they can kill him without going near him, or his even knowing of the danger, is vanishingly small. (I forget who first pointed out that the One Ring is essentially Sauron's External Soul.) It's convincing character-wise; it obeys the law of magic in myth and story, viz. that 'there's always a price to be paid', and advances the plot.
In Dragonheart the motive for the giving of half a heart is a good deal less convincing, but at least it adheres to the basic rule of the trope - that if anyone kills your External Soul, your body dies and vice versa. Paolini broke this rule, and then failed to provide a convincing reason why any dragon would disgorge its soul in the first place - who wants to live after their body's death if the chances are excellent that they will be used for evil?
BTW, a 'round shield' can be anything from 7 inches (e.g. a small 15th-century buckler) to 36 inches (e.g. the Sutton Hoo shield) in diameter, so “as large as a round shield” is a totally pointless simile except in a culture that knows and uses only one style of armament and combat. Though even a dragon with a 7-inch eye would be so big that a swordsman riding it wouldn't be able to reach anything to hit.
[9A]
thegharialguy
August 3 2018, 20:23:39 Edited: August 3 2018, 20:24:23
Largest eye on the planet is the Giant Squid at 10 inches, and they have pretty disproportionately big eyes compared to their bodies. So even at a conservative estimate for the size of a longshield, assuming Glaedr doesn't have big bulging eyes, then he's probably bigger than a blue whale. There really doesn't exist any animal to compare what the upper estimate is. And Shuriken is even bigger in any case. I question how something that size can even fit in doors.
[9A1]
Anonymous
August 3 2018, 23:51:45
Not to mention how managed Galbatorix to enter him into his throne room.
[9A2]
syntinen_laulu
August 4 2018, 03:04:05
In other words, we're back with fifty-foot-diameter dwarven drums.
[9A2A]
Anonymous
August 4 2018, 07:57:46
I suggest you to check D&D dragons. According to (3.5!) stats there (Draconomicon), the largest dragons -red, silver, and golden great wyrms- are as massive as an A380 jet and their wingspan is stated to be similar, even if pictures suggest that with their wings extended in flight they'd be larger (in length, however, they'd be as large as a Boeing 737-8 (if you're European, think on a Ryanair jet). And this now, in the AD&D days -I've the monster manual- they were three times as large and would even dwarf said jet (no wingspan or weight are mentioned, sadly).
Note that I'm not defending Paopao, just noting that as dragons come and go Glaedr is big and Shruikan is even bigger, yes, but there' re larger ones (think on Smaug to cite the one I can think of, as well as the city-sized dragons of an oriental fantasy-inspired setting I know of). Of course the less one thinks on the issues of creatures so huge, especially Shruikan, the better -that a rider is pretty much useless in those cases is the smallest problem-.
[9A2A1]
Anonymous
August 4 2018, 11:58:18
Judging by the artwork and movie depiction, Glaedr is bigger than Smaug if we take this round shield eye size literally, and likely the size of a jet if not bigger.
[9A2A1A]
Anonymous
August 4 2018, 23:16:12
Glaedr?. I guess you mean Shruikan, as it's not featured on the movie.
[9A2A1A1]
thegharialguy
August 4 2018, 23:27:36 Edited: August 4 2018, 23:30:29
Nah I meant the Hobbit movie. Shuriken wasn't even that big in the movie, considering he spent the entire thing hiding behind a curtain. Big as Smaug is, it doesn't look like his eye alone is the size of a round shield. At least, a Man sized round shield.
[Caption: Bilbo standing before Smaug]
[9A2A1A1A]
Anonymous
August 5 2018, 05:38:08
There're comparisons out there showing how movie Smaug has the wingspan of a pair of 747s. Here is one:
[Caption: Comparison of Smaug to two 747's.]
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Anonymous
August 5 2018, 05:41:29
Another thing I forgot to comment: judging by what happens in the final showdown of Inheritance Galby's throne room must have the size of a large hangar in order to have three dragons as large (Saphira, Thorn, and Shruikan) fighting. I'll STFU, by the way, about how shitty is the battle of those three dragons.
[9B]
theepistler
August 3 2018, 23:30:19
Heck, when he was young and green and his publishers hadn't yet explained to him that there was something called 'plagiarism', he as good as admitted it on British TV
Is that when he infamously boasted that he set out to take ideas from other people "and do it right this time"? I just about burst a blood vessel over that one.
A wizard/giant/ogre/king has a very sound motive for keeping his soul safely in an egg in a bird in a tree in a dark forest in an island in an immense ocean: it means he can go about harming people as much as he likes with impunity, because nobody can kill him, and the countervailing risk that if anybody does get hold of his soul they can kill him without going near him
My favourite example of this, possibly for nostalgic reasons, is The Heartless Giant, as seen in The Storyteller (I love that show so much). The giant removed his heart and hid it in a secret place, replaced it with a wasp's nest, then went around being horrible to everyone. But when a good-hearted prince was able to find the heart, one of his brothers took it and crushed it, and the giant died.
J.K.Rowling referenced this trope in Beedle the Bard in the story "The Warlock's Hairy Heart", too. In fact if I recall the book even mentions what an old storytelling device it is. Love her or hate her, Rowling knows her mythology.
[9B1]
thegharialguy
August 3 2018, 23:42:43
She also does a much better job of foreshadowing future planned plot elements than Paolini.
[9B1A]
theepistler
August 3 2018, 23:59:41
I know, right? If you re-read the series it's amazing how well she planned the whole thing out. Given how complex the whole thing is, it's truly impressive how cohesive the world, plot and characters are. Sure, JKR isn't perfect (who is?) but she knows what she's doing.
[Caption: Film poster for Dragonheart]
To summarize, in Dragonheart, dragons are born with an organ in their body they can regurgitate and give to a human. Unlike in Inheritance, the heart seems to actually be placed inside the human. The human gets enhanced strength and longevity as a result and are intrinsically bonded to the dragon.
The Eldinari are obviously also referred to as dragon hearts and have the same general traits of connecting one to a dragon regardless of distance. You’d think Dragonheart would be a generic “a boy and his dragon,” story, but it actually plays things a little more interesting. It does have a guy who’s partnered with a dragon, but the person the dragon gave his heart to is actually the villain who’s using his unchallenged dragon powers to be a tyrant (the dragon gave the villain his heart when the villain was a child, and was actually doing it for selfish reasons as he needed to do a certain number of good deeds to get into dragon heaven and wasn’t really thinking about the dying kid at all). The hero is basically a bad ass normal who happens to be friends with a dragon. As far as movies go, it’s not that great, but it’s not entirely terrible either.
Now I don’t really mind this sort of plagiarism. As ultimately, while the mechanics are similar, the two plots aren’t actually that alike (despite the villain in Inheritance also getting his power from dragon hearts). I just don’t think Paolini has ever once mentioned Dragonheart, and I find the similarities just far too similar to discount. In this chapter, Galeder even warns of a young dragon acting rash and doing exactly what the dragon in the film did in giving his heart away too eagerly to please someone (be it a rider or some kind of dragon heaven judgement system). If it’s confessed, it’s a homage, but if Paolini touts it as his own original ideas, then it’s kind of shameful. Now I haven’t actually scoured any of Paolni’s dozens of interviews to see if this is the case (maybe I’m the first one to ever draw this connection despite the film literally being called Dragonheart and Eldunari also being called Dragon Hearts), maybe he has revealed he did take inspiration from the film, but the Inheritance wiki and a basic google search doesn’t reveal it to be so.
Enough of that anyway, on to the spork. Our chapter opens up with Oromis offering to show Eragon a photo of his mother. Which I actually think is rather nice and sweet. Still really dickish that Oromis never did this before now, but still, context aside, it is rather nice. Eragon hasn’t just found his true father, he’s finally discovered his mother too. Despite knowing her name all his life, he knew basically nothing about her until now. So acknowledging that she’s just a big a part of this reveal as Brom is kind of cool (well, she isn’t quite as big a part as Brom, but I appreciate that they acknowledge her at all and don’t just treat her as a baby factory).
Also, side note, Orimis takes the photo out of that hammerspace known as the “folds” in his tunic as characters are frequently known to do in this series. I really question why it’s there. Either A) Oromis went and grabbed it while Eragon was sharing that moment with Saphira (logical…but then why did he choose to hide it in his tunic?) or B) Oromis has always had a picture of Eragon’s mother hidden beneath his shirt which just brings up a whole host of unsavory questions.
So Eragon gazes at the photo for a while before they move on to serious business. Why are Galbatorix and Murtagh so strong? Oromis defers to Glaedr to explain. We also get a description of Glaedr’s eye as being “as large as a round shield.” A round shield is about the size of a person’s forearm in diameter.
[Caption: Multiple images of a round shield]
That’s the size of Glaedr’s eye. His freaking eye. Glaedr is absolutely freaking massive, and Shuriken is even bigger!? I really don’t see any benefit to riding these things into combat aside from given the dragon moral support. A sword, the thing Eragon’s going to spend the next few chapters obsessing over, would be absolutely useless being wielded from the back of something that colossal.
Back on topic, this is what Glaedr has to say about the Eldunari
“When a dragon hatches, their Eldunarí is clear and lusterless. Usually it remains so all through a dragon’s life and dissolves along with the dragon’s corpse when they die. However, if we wish, we can transfer our consciousness into the Eldunarí. Then it will acquire the same color as our scales and begin to glow like a coal. If a dragon has done this, the Eldunarí will outlast the decay of their flesh, and a dragon’s essence may live on indefinitely.
Also, a dragon can disgorge their Eldunarí while they are still alive. By this means, a dragon’s body and a dragon’s consciousness can exist separately and yet still be linked, which can be most useful in certain circumstances. But to do this exposes us to great danger, for whosoever holds our Eldunarí holds our very soul in their hands. With it, they could force us to do their bidding, no matter how vile.”
One thing I just noticed here, is that a dragon can awaken their Eldunari without regurgitating it, which I find somewhat interesting. In fact, Glaedr says they can “also” regurgitate it, implying that it’s actually pretty common for dragons to put their consciousness in their Eldunari without doing so. That could make for an interesting plot point where a dragon is seemingly dead, but then someone cuts them open to find the Eldunari still alive. I suppose maybe that’s an explanation as to how Galbatorix got so many, as painful as it might be to exist as an Eldunari, I could see a lot of people choosing that option out of panic when it looks like they’re on death’s door. Something Glaedr also mentions is that someone who possess an Eldunari can control a dragon. I’m not sure if this is a literal thing like using true names, or if someone can basically blackmail a dragon into doing whatever they wish by threatening to smash one, regardless, it does beg the question as to why Galbatorix killed the dragons when it seems he easily could have enslaved them. Eragon quizzes Saphira about the Eldunari and she admits she knew about them the whole time yet kept it from him. Partner of his heart and soul, lying to him yet again. This one in particular makes me really confused and question if Paolini actually had the ending of the series planned out. You think he would have foreshadowed this at least once (and no, the vault of souls is not foreshadowing as its way too vague and could have referred to anything at the time), but instead, he actively hid the information from the protagonist and in a really contrived way. Glaedr told Saphira about the Eldunari and told her not to tell Eragon, but throughout all of Eldest, Saphira and Eragon were constantly linked together in mind. Eragon was subconsciously observing all of Saphira’s lessons and vice versa. For Glaedr or Oromis to sneak in some hidden information is basically impossible. Paolini could have built some intrigue by having a scene where Eragon is inexplicably cut off from Saphira’s observations for a time and he questions her about it later to no avail, but as far as I remember Eldest, nothing of the sort happened. It’s just a retcon that Saphira got told all this stuff before while Eragon wasn’t. Eragon’s at least a little pissed about all this needless deception, but not enough to actually cause any conflict. Glaedr continues to explain things.
“In the wild, a dragon would learn about his Eldunarí from one of his elders when he was old enough to understand the use of it. That way, a dragon would not transfer themself into their heart of hearts without knowing the full import of their actions. Among the Riders, a different custom arose. The first few years of partnership between a dragon and a Rider are crucial to establishing a healthy relationship between the two, and the Riders discovered that it was better to wait until newly joined Riders and dragons were well familiar with each other before informing them of the Eldunarí. Otherwise, in the reckless folly of youth, a dragon might decide to disgorge his heart of hearts merely to appease or impress his Rider. When we give up our Eldunarí, we are giving up a physical embodiment of our entire being. And we cannot return it to its original place within our bodies once it is gone. A dragon should not undertake the separation of their consciousness lightly, for it will change how they live the rest of their lives, even if they should endure for another thousand years.”
This passage kind of irritates me. Glaedr swaps between using “he” and “they” to describe nonspecific dragons. I’d much prefer “they” over “he” (cause, you know, there’s plenty of female dragons too), but if you’re going to go with he, then at least be consistent with it.
Oromis goes on to explain how the riders were complacent as they had a complete monopoly over the world, so most dragons freely gave out their Eldunari for convenience. It’s treated as a pretty stupid thing, but I also find it quite unbelievable. For starters, living as a stone is not a great existence. In the heat of the moment it might seem preferable to death, but I don’t think it’s a decision anyone would take lightly, least of all immortal beings who don’t need to do something like that to escape death unless their physical body was threatened (which it really isn’t because they basically have no enemies). Second of all, I don’t see how it’s actually all that convenient. Riders and dragons would have basically no reason to be apart. Being able to talk to your dragon over long distances sounds great, but only if you have some reason to be massively separated from your dragon. The other alternative is that the dragons were giving their Eldunari to people other than their riders, which makes little sense due to the whole “gaining complete control of them should you have it,” thing. If I had an eldunari, I don’t think I’d entrust it to anyone but the person who I’m mentally linked to.
“A brilliantly colored hummingbird interrupted their conversation by darting across the table. Its wings a throbbing blur, the bird hovered over the bowls of fruit and lapped at the liquid oozing from a crushed blackberry, then flitted up and away, vanishing among the trunks of the forest.”
This paragraph’s interrupts Oromis’ speech. It serves no purpose. It doesn’t even break up the conversation, as Oromis hadn’t even been talking for that long at this point. I don’t mind some slight observations to retain mood and setting during a conversation, but an entire paragraph like this is just jarring in its irrelevance.
“And of course, once Galbatorix and the Forsworn sacked the city of Doru Araeba on the island of Vroengard, he gained possession of the entire hoard of Eldunarí stored therein.”
But, didn’t a rider blow himself up to prevent exactly that from happening? Oromis should know this. Why is he lying to Eragon? This is the Vault of Souls, the first actual mention of a thing that’s been foreshadowed since the first book, and it completely clashes with what it established in the next book. After Galby defeated the riders, he spent forty years trying to break the mind of every dragon under his control. He then spent two and a half years actually doing his job as a tyrant before he grew bored of that and started working on finding the true name of names. I believe this is the only time these two and a half years of Galbatorix actually acting like a villain are mentioned, which is a real shame as it should be a major part of the justification as to why everyone hates him so much. It also says Surda seceded during the first forty years, which doesn’t seem to make sense. If Galbatorix spent two and a half years causing “additional slaughter and sorrow,” why on earth did he allow Surda to remain independent? He was in full overlord mode, he should have crushed Surda like a bear crushes an ant (to take from a simile I’m sure the series uses at some point). The only possible explanation is that Galbatorix has absolutely no problem with Surda’s existence and this two and a half years of terror are an exaggeration on Oromis’ part.
“His vices are many, but he has not abandoned himself to debauchery; that much the Varden’s spies have determined.”
Okay, so Galbatrox doesn’t have a harem…is that relevant in any way? And what vices does he have if not sex? Is he a total glutton? I don’t recall him being described as obese in the next book. Does he have a weakness for gambling? Illogical as he basically owns everything already. You’ve forced in a completely contrived line to try and characterize your villain here Paolini yet you somehow have managed to give him even less character than he had before.
“Lost deep in thought, Eragon stared off into the distance. For the first time, all of the stories he had heard about Galbatorix’s unnatural power made sense.”
What stories Eragon? Seriously, this is something the narrative has established since like the beginning of the series, but it leans extremely heavy on the tell don’t show side of things. We have zero stories about Galbatorix’s feats of strength. The only power he’s confirmed to have at this point is a keen ability to break minds, guess people’s name and kick people in the balls. Yet everyone’s shit scared of how powerful he’s become. I made a dedicated article about this once noting how this should be a major aspect of the book. His powers should be met with either skepticism from the Varden or reinforced by including defectors from his court. It didn’t get much traffic, which is a shame since I think I had some good ideas. Check it out here if you missed it https://antishurtugal.livejournal.com/1014294.html
Eragon asks the pretty rational question as to why Eldunari aren’t in the myths and stories about dragons (like the previous two chapters, it stinks of Paolini trying to answer something before fans complain, but I wouldn’t give Eragon too much flak for trying to use his brain for once). Oromis’ response isn’t that convincing. He says it was to protect Eldunari due to how powerful they are. Which, fair enough, you don’t want any old idiot getting their hands on one, but it seems pretty unlikely nobody in history managed to find out; especially when it’s confirmed that the old order of riders started acting very laze faire about the whole thing.
“A dragon who has disgorged their Eldunarí but who still enjoys the use of their flesh can, of course, defend their heart with their claws and their fangs and their tail and with the battering of their wings. A dragon whose body is dead, however, possesses none of those advantages. Their only weapon is the weapon of their mind and, perhaps, if the moment is right, the weapon of magic, which we cannot command at will. That is one reason why many dragons did not choose to prolong their existence beyond the demise of their flesh. To be unable to move of your own volition, to be unable to sense the world around you except through the minds of others, and to only be able to influence the course of events with your thoughts and with rare and unpredictable flashes of magic; it would be a difficult existence to embrace for most any creature, but especially dragons, who are the freest of all beings.”
I do appreciate that they don’t glorify how useful Eldunari are, and how living as one could be pretty hellish. They also go on to say it’s typically pretty old dragons that do it in the first place and they treat it more like ascending to a higher plane of existence to contemplate the meaning of life. However, this passage also includes an element that is never addressed again and makes no sense. Dragons can still use magic as Eldunari. Dragon magic breaks all of the rules and is extremely powerful. It’s basically the sort of stuff Eragon used to defeat Galabatorix. So, not once, in the four decades it took Galbatorix to subdue the hundreds of Eldunari, did the urge to use magic ever come to them. They even go on to mention that the Eldunari sometimes even commit suicide using magic, yet none of them, or at least, not a significant portion of them, managed to do this when they were being mind raped by Galbatorix. He should have just made it so they can’t use magic as Eldunari. Case closed, no plot hole. Well, actually, I guess the Eldunari from the vault to help Eragon to cast that last spell and manipulate his entire life, so it does crop up again, but if anything that just reinforces my point. They have the means to deal damage to Galbatorix but never do without the protagonist to lead the way.
[Caption: Three-panel comic.
First panel: Abu from Aladdin brandishes a sword.
Second panel: Several guards recoil. Text: 'He's got a sword!'
Third panel: More guards arrive. Text: 'You idiots! We've all got swords!']
I was too lazy to replaze sword with magic.
Eragon goes onto ask how Eldunari have energy when they don’t eat, which again is a logical question, but by now the chapter has really started to over explain its subject matter. It’s better to pace these things, including them over the course of the book or series, instead of dumping them at the readers feet and going “you might think this creates a lot of plot holes, but I’ve thought of this, and this, and this etc.” It doesn’t help that Oromis’ answers are pretty weak. Somehow the Eldunari gain all the energy from their body when their body dies (ignoring the rules of distance it seems, and also ignoring the fact that if you’re dead, then you’ve probably run out of energy in this setting given all the healing magic and wards etc) and then again, somehow, actually grow even stronger for the next few years before reaching a cap. Narratively speaking, this power increase has no real reason to exist other than to build up Galbatorix, which is unnecessary as he already is confirmed to have hundreds of the things (although Galbatorix might be wrong about that number if he thinks Galby has the Vault of Souls, but for the purpose of building up the villain it’s moot as the reader is led to believe he has hundreds at this point).
Paolini then goes on to praise himself for foreshadowing the Eldunari plot twist with the battle against Murtagh earlier in the book. Just don’t do that Paolini, have some faith in your audience’s intelligence. We can work out what those hints mean in retrospect. And also, if you’re going to foreshadow, do it in the previous book. This just makes it look like you came up with the idea when writing this book (which might be the case).
Oromis says he scoured the continent with his mind looking for any Eldunari outside of Galbatorix’s control and found nothing. I guess the dragons in the vault just didn’t trust Oromis which…good call guys. The chapter finally ends on another picked and dropped topic as they discuss what it’s like to lose your rider after becoming an Eldunari. Again, a nice bit of lore to consider and discuss, but dumping it way too heavy on the reader in this chapter. This conversation really should have happened in Eldest, and not the end of Eldest, somewhere near the middle. Eragon never should have been kept in the dark about the Eldunari. It’s a major element of the world and the final battle of the series, it should have been introduced, or at the very least properly hinted at, much earlier and been allowed to develop at a natural pace. Instead we get a large exposition dump and before we even fully wrap our head around the implications of it, Glaedr is giving Eragon his Eldunari and Oromis is dying. When I was young, I read Eragon and absolutely loved it. I read Eldest and was less thrilled, but I was still invested in the series. This is the book that really made me stop and realize what I was reading was not good, and I think I attribute that more so to this scene than the dwarf elections or Eragon’s jaunt through the empire alone. Those things were filler, I can forgive filler being bad, but this is critical information that is integral to the series and it’s massively fumbled. I’ll give him props for the title though. Souls of Stone sounds pretty cool and manages to be quite accurate.
Next chapter is Hands of a Warrior. I don’t know who’s sporking it because I don’t have the list, but I hope we can see it in less than a month. We’ve been at this a while now and I think we’re finally seeing some light at the end of the tunnel.
53 comments
[1]
thegharialguy
August 2 2018, 13:17:23
Could someone post the list of Brisingr chapters that are left and who's due to spork them? I think with the decision to do this Eragon spork, we should try and bring this Brisinger one to a close sooner rather than later, and everyone knowing how much is required of them might help. I think I have one chapter left during the climax, but I'm not completely sure.
[1A]
theepistler
August 2 2018, 17:56:38 Edited: August 2 2018, 17:56:53
Not a problem - here are the remaining chapters. And I agree - it's really high time we wrapped this thing up. I'll get on to sporking the next chapter right away.
Hands of a Warrior – Epistler
The Tree of Life – Snarkbotanya
Mind over Metal – Hergrim
A Rider in Full – Epistler
Greaves and Bracers – minionnumber2
Leave-taking – Epistler
Flight – Pipedream
Brisingr! - Anya
Shadows of Doom – thegharialguy
Sunrise- Epistler
[1A1]
torylltales
August 2 2018, 21:44:56
I'm happy to take another of your four chapters, Epi, if you want to cut back.
[1A1A]
theepistler
August 3 2018, 13:07:19
Which one would you like?
[1A1A1]
torylltales
August 3 2018, 13:25:53
I kind of have my eye on Sunrise, if I can. If I recall, that's a particularly terrible one.
Plus, you know how much I like to have the last word :P
[1A2]
thegharialguy
August 2 2018, 23:13:49 Edited: August 2 2018, 23:42:34
I'm up for taking anyone's too. I only actually had three chapters in this book, including the one still yet to do. Aside from you, there's one chapter for everyone, so I'd recommend we all start writing our sporks simultaneously, or at least the next two or three chapters simultaneously. If we do that, then we could probably get the thing finished in a month.
[1A3]
cmdrnemo
August 3 2018, 05:03:47
Hergrim backed out of Mind over Metal. That one is on me.
[2]
theepistler
August 2 2018, 18:12:33
I watched Dragonheart on TV when I was a kid! I LOVED it. It's still an old favourite of mine. And, though this will probably make me sound like a complete loon, the trashy direct to DVD sequel had its moments too. Well okay, one moment - the big reveal at the climax that the villain was really a dragon robbed of his heart and trapped in human form was really cool and genuinely surprised me. The protagonist, however, was basically Eragon before Eragon. In fact I recommend watching the movie just to see the parallels for yourself. He's whiny, he's entitled, he's ridiculously arrogant despite being a nobody, and he treats the "good" dragon character like shit. Plus the dragon himself is a complete loser easily manipulated by everyone he comes across (as a result of which he gets manipulated and used by, well, everybody including the bad guys and the good guys).
Like I said, it's trash. Albeit trash that had one good idea to offer.
This chapter just slays me, and for a couple of reasons, the largest of which is that right after a chapter in which we're told "intelligence" is the key to victory, the author introduces literal power-up tokens. Hell, there was apparently a video game which used the exact same concept - the crystalised remains of magical creatures, used as power-up tokens by the villain. I wouldn't go so far as to say Paolini stole the concept from Dragonheart (though I definitely don't dismiss the possibility), if only because it's just so painfully cliched.
This chapter also does an excellent job of devaluing the dragon characters even further. Not only are Saphira and Glaedr completely superfluous characters, and not only has Saphira done precisely nothing so far in this entire book despite getting her own POV chapters, but we now learn that dragons are basically just magic batteries, to the point that they don't even need live bodies to be blithely exploited by both (alleged) heroes and (alleged) villains.
The other thing that slays me in this chapter is Glaedr's claim that dragons are "the freest of all beings". Glaedr, you're a glorified pet. You're literally bound to another person for your entire LIFE, with absolutely no chance of ever being a completely autonomous being since before you even hatched. And on top of that, you're about to hand your soul to Eragon on a silver platter and thereafter be used as a power-up token slash dispenser of information. In what sense are you in any way "free"? Or Saphira either, for that matter? Given the chapter this line happened to appear in, it just becomes even more ironic.
[2A]
thegharialguy
August 2 2018, 23:15:59 Edited: August 2 2018, 23:18:42
I actually seen the trashy Dragonheart sequel before watching the original, that's why I was so surprised that the original played things more interesting with an adult protagonist that isn't psychically bond to the dragon. The sequel plays the entire the concept completely straight, it's basically a proto Eragon. Upon researching for this spork, I actually discovered there's been some more movies released recently on Netflix if you want to check them out for nostalgia's sake.
I've seen crystallized remains being used as a power up several times before, most noteably Final Fantasy VI. But the thing that I call foul on with the Dragon Hearts is that both power ups literally have the same name and can be extracted from the dragon without death being needed. Like, really the only difference is that you can get most of the powers without getting the Eldinwhatever in Inheritance.
[2A1]
theepistler
August 3 2018, 10:05:31
Yeah, it's proto Eragon all right. It's truly amazing how closely bad fantasy stories align to each other - there are so many constants it's almost scary. One of the most common of which is the snotty protagonist.
I actually own Dragonheart 3 on DVD, but haven't gotten around to watching it yet.
[2B]
Anonymous
August 3 2018, 06:15:33
“We now learn that dragons are basically just magic batteries”
Here’s what the Inheritance wiki says about one of the uses of Eldunarí:
“The Eldunarí can increase the Mental powers of the user, or not if the user is mentally incapable. They can increase both the range and mental strength of the user to both be able to withstand and attack the minds of others. The increase is proportional to the size of the Eldunarí at the time of disgorgement.”
It reads like the text for a magic boosting item (or magical battery) in an RPG.
[2B1]
theepistler
August 3 2018, 10:07:41
Note the repeated use of the word "user". Because THAT'S not dehumanising at all. The elundari are literally treated like objects rather than, y'know, sentient beings. No wonder the ones in the vault of souls were so keen on fucking with people - that is until they hand themselves over to Durragon to give him a free mana boost, after which he also treats them like objects.
[3]
snarkbotanya
August 2 2018, 19:44:50
B) Oromis has always had a picture of Eragon’s mother hidden beneath his shirt which just brings up a whole host of unsavory questions.
New headcanon: Oromis faps to the fairth of Eragon's mom.
But, didn’t a rider blow himself up to prevent exactly that from happening? Oromis should know this. Why is he lying to Eragon?
I think what happened here was Paolini forgetting his own plot again. Or possibly not having worked that part out yet and just writing by the seat of his pants. Or both, somehow.
Okay, so Galbatrox doesn’t have a harem…is that relevant in any way?
This conflicts with Murtagh's "playing with his concubines" line, actually. My conclusion? Galbatorix had a lover or two, and Murtagh's bias was talking when he called them concubines.
[3A]
theepistler
August 2 2018, 20:22:57
I think what happened here was Paolini forgetting his own plot again.
Or maybe it's surprisingly subtle foreshadowing of the fact that Oromis' memory has been tampered with to protect the existence of the Deus Ex Machinari?
This conflicts with Murtagh's "playing with his concubines" line, actually.
I love how we're supposed to see Galby as "bad" because he has concubines. Unlike the virginal Eragon who has his One True Love who he's apparently saving himself for. And never mind that Ergs is a stalkerish Nice Guy, or that there's nothing wrong with liking sex and having it outside of a monogamous relationship. Now, if the "concubines" were true name slaves or otherwise being coerced into sleeping with Galbatorix, that would be evil. But honestly, I suspect we're just supposed to assume they're a bunch of worthless sluts who are Evil and Bad for enjoying sex outside the marriage bed (the way God intended). Why? Because it's a moral judgement you get in a lot of very traditional fantasy, and this series is nothing if not traditional.
I'm betting if Book Five ever happens, there will be a Shocking Revelation that Galbatorix had a secret kid, almost certainly a son, if only because that's just how Paolini rolls. Now, if the kid in question was the protagonist out to avenge his father, I'd read the hell out of it on principle. But instead Paolini will just cast him as the villain, because we all know how much he loves playing Generation Xerox.
[3A1]
syntinen_laulu
August 2 2018, 22:03:17
But honestly, I suspect we're just supposed to assume they're a bunch of worthless sluts who are Evil and Bad for enjoying sex outside the marriage bed (the way God intended).
Or just whores who don't mind pleasuring the Big Bad so long as he pays them well, or graciously offs their un-friends in return for their performing particularly unspeakable acts.
[3A1A]
theepistler
August 3 2018, 13:11:53
Nothin' wrong with a little whoring! It's the world's oldest profession! :-p
[3A1A1]
thegharialguy
August 3 2018, 17:41:06
How did people pay the whores if there were no other jobs?
[3A1A1A]
theepistler
August 3 2018, 23:20:28
It's mostly just an old saying, albeit with some basis in fact.
Interestingly, a scientific study proved that even monkeys understand the concept of prostitution.
[3A1A1A1]
thegharialguy
August 3 2018, 23:40:39
Actually I was already aware of both.
[3A1A1A1A]
theepistler
August 3 2018, 23:42:00
Then why the flip did you ask?!
[3A1A1A1A1]
thegharialguy
August 3 2018, 23:56:18
To see what you'd say.
[3A1A1A1A1A]
theepistler
August 4 2018, 00:06:33
Oooh, you sly bastard!
Did I pass?
[3A1A1A1A1A1]
thegharialguy
August 4 2018, 00:15:29
It's not something one passes or fails.
[3A1A1A1A1A1A]
theepistler
August 4 2018, 00:22:24
[Caption: Yoda quote: 'Do or do not. There is no try.]
[3A1B]
theepistler
August 3 2018, 23:32:14
Huh, apparently LJ sorted itself out - I just now got an email notifying me about this comment. :-/
[3A2]
thegharialguy
August 2 2018, 23:34:40 Edited: August 2 2018, 23:36:24
We do like to play up Galbatorix's morality compared to the heroes, but given his MO, I find it highly unlikely that he didn't have true name slaves serving him, if he does have concubines (which this chapter seems to refute). Snarkbot's conclusion seems to be the most reasonable way to solve this contradiction/retcon (although concubine wouldn't be entirely inaccurate a term to call any loves he had, regardless of number or emotional closeness).
[3A2A]
theepistler
August 3 2018, 09:55:06
I rolled my eyes so hard when Nasuada asked Murtagh if Galbatorix loved any of his concubines. Because of course the answer is no because he so evil, y'all. God forbid the evil villain of evilness have any actual human qualities or anything silly like that.
[4]
Anonymous
August 2 2018, 20:13:59
1) On the humongous size of Glaedr or whatever it's called -I think the largest D&D wyrms are similar in size, even if in AD&D that would be just an adult dragon-. Anyway, that transforms the dragon just in the equivalent of a large and quite nasty armored gunship, where the rider is just transported from one place to another. Unless the latter is a magic user, he/she's pretty useless (and, by the way, it would be cool if when dragons get larger and larger as they grow, even if they're stronger and nastier (breath weapon, spells) they'd get clumsier and spend more time sleeping (some square-cube law). And, of course, unless the rider rivals in power with the dragon, the former is pretty much useless as the latter can wipe out armies alone if it's so large.
2) Saw Dragonheart long ago and liked it, especially the ending (there's a Draco constellation in real life and it's a cool way to see it instead of the typical snake-like representation of it).
[5]
torylltales
August 2 2018, 21:10:24 Edited: August 2 2018, 21:11:56
I would argue the Dragonheart thing. Dragonheart uses theBeat Still, My Heart variation of the Soul Jar; whereas in the IC, Paolini uses the Sealed Badass In A Can variation. (Eldulari are also different to the traditional concept of a Soul Jar, because the Jar cannot be used for resurrection, and they add a large element of existential horror/torture). Similar, but different enough that it doesn't feel like a ripoff to me.
And in Dragonheart, it isn't "an organ" that dragons can "dislodge" and give to people, it's literally half of the dragon's heart, magically(?) severed and transplanted into a human's chest in place of their own heart. And a human and dragon so connected are not "intrinsically bonded" in anywhere near the same way as a Rider and their dragon's eldunari, it's more like a physiological homeostasis than a psychological connection.
[5A]
thegharialguy
August 2 2018, 23:40:07
Well they're not mentally connected, but the human still gets enhanced physical strength, immortality and a life link to the dragon, if the dragon dies, the human dies too (while vice versa doesn't seem to be true as a human with a dragon heart appears to be nigh on indestructible). As I said above, the biggest reason I draw the connection is that they're literally called the same thing, and the movie came out not long before Paolini started writing the series.
[6]
Anonymous
August 3 2018, 02:40:19
but then someone cuts them open to find the Eldunari still alive. I suppose maybe that’s an explanation as to how Galbatorix got so many
I think it's said either here or in the next book that Galbatorix or the Forsworn would torture a rider or dragon until they gave up their Eldunari. Something like that
"You think he would have foreshadowed this at least once (and no, the vault of souls is not foreshadowing as its way too vague and could have referred to anything at the time), but instead, he actively hid the information from the protagonist and in a really contrived way. Glaedr told Saphira about the Eldunari and told her not to tell Eragon, but throughout all of Eldest, Saphira and Eragon were constantly linked together in mind. Eragon was subconsciously observing all of Saphira’s lessons and vice versa. For Glaedr or Oromis to sneak in some hidden information is basically impossible. Paolini could have built some intrigue by having a scene where Eragon is inexplicably cut off from Saphira’s observations for a time and he questions her about it later to no avail, but as far as I remember Eldest, nothing of the sort happened. It’s just a rectcon that Saphira got told all this stuff before while Eragon wasn’t."
I think the only foreshadowing for Eludunari is one line of dialogue between Saphira and Glaedr when they leave in Eldest. Glaedr says something along the lines of "keep your heart, safe."
[6A]
thegharialguy
August 3 2018, 03:03:01
I think he goes as far as to say hearts plural, which, well it helps, but cryptic references like that aren't good foreshadowing. I've actually considered making an article on the good and bad foreshadowing in the series, because it does have some good examples, a good example being the true name of the Ancient Language and what it can do. Eragon asks the question in the first book and Brom speculates on the results, it works because it feels like a natural thing to wonder (does this thing I just discovered have a name) and seems to exist to further explain how names work and influence things in the setting. Conversely, a very bad example of foreshadowing is in Brisingr when the Raz'Ac tries to tell Eragon that Galbatorix is looking for the Name'o'Names. It's contrived, vague and covered in bells and whistles that say "hey, this is relevant! Bet you don't know what it means!" And it really wasn't that hard to guess, at least for anyone who remembered the first bit of foreshadowing.
[6A1]
Anonymous
August 3 2018, 07:17:47
Different anon, but I have to add that Paolini really went above and beyond his usual by not only having that one throwaway line, but two throwaway lines total on the subject of Eldunari. I don’t remember where, but there was a sentence in the middle of Eldest where Eragon is blocked out of a conversation between Sapphire and Glaedr and he supposes that they were talking about secrets only known to the dragons or something. The only reason I remember is because immediately upon reading that line, I wondered if humans had secrets dragons didn’t know and thought a lot more on that strain than I should have.
[6A1A]
thegharialguy
August 3 2018, 11:21:31
Oh so there is a line like that? That's more decent foreshadowing and is likely referenced here, but if Saphira and Glaedr suddenly broke of connection with him, Eragon should have made more of a fuss and actually acknowledged it beyond a throwaway line.
[6A1A1]
theepistler
August 3 2018, 13:12:55
Yeah, as I recall there actually is a bit during the training chapters in Eldest where we're told Glaedr is teaching Saphira dragon lore which Durragon isn't privy to.
[6A2]
Anonymous
August 4 2018, 23:11:36
Same amon: I agree, it could also be reffering to Eragon too. As I guess Eragon could be Saphira's heart?
[7]
Anonymous
August 3 2018, 03:18:01
After reading this sporking, three things about the
1) Secrecy
I'm not bothered by the fact that the Riders kept the Eldunarya a secret. It makes sense to keep them secret. What doesn't make sense is how there are absolutely no myths about them, even ones that are only loosely connected to the Eldunarya. You'd think that there would be legends on how dragons have two literal hearts or that they have gems stored in their body, but there aren't any, at least according to Oromis. The fact that Eragon was kept in the dark about the Eldunarya also makes zero sense. Wouldn't Saphira told him about hers early on, such as when she first started talking? And even if she didn't, it makes zero sense as to why Brom and Oromis would not tell the only "capable" dragon rider about Galbatorix's source of power.
2) Magic
In this chapter, Glaedr says that Eldunarya can't control their magic. If so, then why could the Vault of Souls Eldunarya manipulate events in Alagaësia so precisely, such as moving Saphira's egg to Eragon when it was teleported. Seems pretty convenient that they just happened to be able to unleash their magic at that time and send the egg near the right person. Even as magical rocks, dragons continue to be Deus ex Machinas.
3) Purpose
I believe that the books said that before the riders formed, dragons would use their Eldunarya to teach younger dragons stuff (I could be wrong on this since the wiki doesn't mention it, but I swear that's in Brisingr). Why such an organ would be needed in immortal dragons makes no sense, especially since the dragons A) have no natural predators, and B) could just use their holodeck features to teach, rather than trap themselves in a rock. And the Eldunarya's purpose after the riders formed makes little sense either. Why doom yourself to a fate worse than death just so that your rider can talk to you over long distances or use you like a battery? Couldn't someone just enchant two rings or whatever to do the same thing? Its a shame that Eldunarya, like dragon magic, had so much potential but turned out so ridiculous.
[8]
ultramega10
August 3 2018, 08:06:50
So let's recap. We are 48 chapters in this book and the only thing that has happened is the death of the Raz'zac. Who died in... was it chapter 3?
Worst book in the series. Definitely worst.
[8A]
Anonymous
August 3 2018, 08:54:18
Agreed... I remember to have skipped long sections of it as they were also quite boring and apported little, if any.
[8B]
theepistler
August 12 2018, 14:13:54
Every book in the series is the worst book in the series. :-p
But this one is definitely up there in terms of sheer pointlessness.
[9]
syntinen_laulu
August 3 2018, 20:06:50
I would bet serious money on Paolini having got the idea from Dragonheart, if only because grabbing plots, themes and tropes from other people's stories and sellotaping them together is his consistent MO. (Heck, when he was young and green and his publishers hadn't yet explained to him that there was something called 'plagiarism', he as good as admitted it on British TV.)
But, as is also pretty consistent with Paolini, he has totally failed to grasp the logic and function of the trope he is using, or even consider that there should be any. The motif of the External Soul occurs, as James Frazer pointed out, 'from Hindoostan to the Hebrides', and where it occurs it makes perfect sense. A wizard/giant/ogre/king has a very sound motive for keeping his soul safely in an egg in a bird in a tree in a dark forest in an island in an immense ocean: it means he can go about harming people as much as he likes with impunity, because nobody can kill him, and the countervailing risk that if anybody does get hold of his soul they can kill him without going near him, or his even knowing of the danger, is vanishingly small. (I forget who first pointed out that the One Ring is essentially Sauron's External Soul.) It's convincing character-wise; it obeys the law of magic in myth and story, viz. that 'there's always a price to be paid', and advances the plot.
In Dragonheart the motive for the giving of half a heart is a good deal less convincing, but at least it adheres to the basic rule of the trope - that if anyone kills your External Soul, your body dies and vice versa. Paolini broke this rule, and then failed to provide a convincing reason why any dragon would disgorge its soul in the first place - who wants to live after their body's death if the chances are excellent that they will be used for evil?
BTW, a 'round shield' can be anything from 7 inches (e.g. a small 15th-century buckler) to 36 inches (e.g. the Sutton Hoo shield) in diameter, so “as large as a round shield” is a totally pointless simile except in a culture that knows and uses only one style of armament and combat. Though even a dragon with a 7-inch eye would be so big that a swordsman riding it wouldn't be able to reach anything to hit.
[9A]
thegharialguy
August 3 2018, 20:23:39 Edited: August 3 2018, 20:24:23
Largest eye on the planet is the Giant Squid at 10 inches, and they have pretty disproportionately big eyes compared to their bodies. So even at a conservative estimate for the size of a longshield, assuming Glaedr doesn't have big bulging eyes, then he's probably bigger than a blue whale. There really doesn't exist any animal to compare what the upper estimate is. And Shuriken is even bigger in any case. I question how something that size can even fit in doors.
[9A1]
Anonymous
August 3 2018, 23:51:45
Not to mention how managed Galbatorix to enter him into his throne room.
[9A2]
syntinen_laulu
August 4 2018, 03:04:05
In other words, we're back with fifty-foot-diameter dwarven drums.
[9A2A]
Anonymous
August 4 2018, 07:57:46
I suggest you to check D&D dragons. According to (3.5!) stats there (Draconomicon), the largest dragons -red, silver, and golden great wyrms- are as massive as an A380 jet and their wingspan is stated to be similar, even if pictures suggest that with their wings extended in flight they'd be larger (in length, however, they'd be as large as a Boeing 737-8 (if you're European, think on a Ryanair jet). And this now, in the AD&D days -I've the monster manual- they were three times as large and would even dwarf said jet (no wingspan or weight are mentioned, sadly).
Note that I'm not defending Paopao, just noting that as dragons come and go Glaedr is big and Shruikan is even bigger, yes, but there' re larger ones (think on Smaug to cite the one I can think of, as well as the city-sized dragons of an oriental fantasy-inspired setting I know of). Of course the less one thinks on the issues of creatures so huge, especially Shruikan, the better -that a rider is pretty much useless in those cases is the smallest problem-.
[9A2A1]
Anonymous
August 4 2018, 11:58:18
Judging by the artwork and movie depiction, Glaedr is bigger than Smaug if we take this round shield eye size literally, and likely the size of a jet if not bigger.
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Anonymous
August 4 2018, 23:16:12
Glaedr?. I guess you mean Shruikan, as it's not featured on the movie.
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thegharialguy
August 4 2018, 23:27:36 Edited: August 4 2018, 23:30:29
Nah I meant the Hobbit movie. Shuriken wasn't even that big in the movie, considering he spent the entire thing hiding behind a curtain. Big as Smaug is, it doesn't look like his eye alone is the size of a round shield. At least, a Man sized round shield.
[Caption: Bilbo standing before Smaug]
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Anonymous
August 5 2018, 05:38:08
There're comparisons out there showing how movie Smaug has the wingspan of a pair of 747s. Here is one:
[Caption: Comparison of Smaug to two 747's.]
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Anonymous
August 5 2018, 05:41:29
Another thing I forgot to comment: judging by what happens in the final showdown of Inheritance Galby's throne room must have the size of a large hangar in order to have three dragons as large (Saphira, Thorn, and Shruikan) fighting. I'll STFU, by the way, about how shitty is the battle of those three dragons.
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theepistler
August 3 2018, 23:30:19
Heck, when he was young and green and his publishers hadn't yet explained to him that there was something called 'plagiarism', he as good as admitted it on British TV
Is that when he infamously boasted that he set out to take ideas from other people "and do it right this time"? I just about burst a blood vessel over that one.
A wizard/giant/ogre/king has a very sound motive for keeping his soul safely in an egg in a bird in a tree in a dark forest in an island in an immense ocean: it means he can go about harming people as much as he likes with impunity, because nobody can kill him, and the countervailing risk that if anybody does get hold of his soul they can kill him without going near him
My favourite example of this, possibly for nostalgic reasons, is The Heartless Giant, as seen in The Storyteller (I love that show so much). The giant removed his heart and hid it in a secret place, replaced it with a wasp's nest, then went around being horrible to everyone. But when a good-hearted prince was able to find the heart, one of his brothers took it and crushed it, and the giant died.
J.K.Rowling referenced this trope in Beedle the Bard in the story "The Warlock's Hairy Heart", too. In fact if I recall the book even mentions what an old storytelling device it is. Love her or hate her, Rowling knows her mythology.
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thegharialguy
August 3 2018, 23:42:43
She also does a much better job of foreshadowing future planned plot elements than Paolini.
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theepistler
August 3 2018, 23:59:41
I know, right? If you re-read the series it's amazing how well she planned the whole thing out. Given how complex the whole thing is, it's truly impressive how cohesive the world, plot and characters are. Sure, JKR isn't perfect (who is?) but she knows what she's doing.