Reading Brisingr Part Three: I Hate Everything

[pangolin20]

theepistler wrote in antishurtugal, 2016-09-07 20:18:00

Reading Brisingr Part Three: I Hate Everything

Wow, Oromis is a dick.
we didn't learn this in Eldest?
I meant the other kind of dick.
hahaha
what we have learned is that the ancient elderly crippled elf both is and has a dick.
I don't remember him being this arrogant and patronising in Eldest.
duh, he needed to get Eragon firmly in his pockets first.
so he had to impress him with the wise mentor routine.
Seriously, though, Eragon is massively pissed off for legitimate reasons (even if it comes right the fuck out of nowhere) and Oromis is all "take a few deep breaths and chill OUT, loser". Why would that not just piss him off even further? Telling an angry person to "calm down" is a really bad idea.
It implies that you're not taking their anger seriously and are in fact dismissing it as so unimportant that it can be set aside just because you asked them to.
he knows Eragon is in too deep to back out or change sides now, so subtlety and niceness aren't important.
Even though Eragon flat-out told him "you no longer have either my loyalty or my trust" and suggested that Oromis deliberately lied to him. *eyeroll*
Screw you, Oromis. You're not "wise" or superior - you're an arrogant, pretentious dick.
Eragon's a one-track sheep and Oromis knows it.
You're giving the creep way too much credit, dude.
I think of all the characters only he and Galby really know what's going on.
both are from the Old Guard, and both know pretty much that everyone around them are either threats or pawns.
I think paolini vastly underestimated and underutilised Oromis, he could have used him to set up a real moral dilemma for Eragon. Support the arrogant xenophobic elf who so far has done nothing but meditate in a forest, or support the human who has expanded human territories and vastly increased trade and prosperity and overall safety for the human population?
If this setup had been approached with anything resembling thought or careful consideration, it could have been a really powerful tug of war between two powerful but declining chess kings, for the support of the only one who has any real staying power in prolonged battle (because he's young and strong compared to them).
Especially if all Eragon wants is to be left alone to live a good honest life, maybe raise a family, in peace and quiet, seeing him snap from the pressure and form his own rebel group separate from the other three, with the primary goal of dismantling the antagonistic terrorism of competing ideologies (and replacing them with his own) could have been a really fascinating, riveting read.
I'll take "Even more missed opportunities for an interesting story" for $100, Jim.
Well I'm going off what's actually written in the book and ignoring fandom interpretations, so as it stands Oromis is just a rude tool as far as I'm concerned.
oh yeah, as written he's the very model of a douche.
And the "Brom is your REAL father" revelation comes right the fuck out of nowhere and why should I even care?
Morzan being Eragon's dad has had precisely zero impact on the plot. His parentage is 100% irrelevant.
Because it shelters Eragon from the moral dilemma of having an evil biological father
A dilemma which didn't change him one iota.
impact or not, Eragon needs to be sheltered from the implications of his family line being less than perfect and pure and good.
Maybe Kenneth read the books and was like "isn't Eragon your self-insert? WTF does that make me an evil traitor who was the right hand man of a psychopath?"
Why yes. Yes it does.
and then Christopher was like *oh fudge!* "n-no, father, it's just misdirection. See, you're really Brom, the wise and helpful rider who taught Eragon everything he knows"
Come to think of it, this explains a lot.
You're also abusive and possibly an alcoholic.
And then Paolini's mum was like "what happens to me, then? Eragon's mother was mentioned like once at the very start of the first book. Don't I get a cool backstory?"
It definitely does read as a last-minute asspull
"Fine, mother, you're a super awesome assassin ninja with a heart of gold who turned her back on the Empire for love and ran away with Brom"
As in, he literally decided to put this in five minutes before writing it.
It's SO abruptly shoehorned in.
Actually, considering that Ken and Tal were in an evil organisation before running away together to a tiny village in the mountains to raise their children in isolation...
o.0
OMG
And Chris is a naive kid who had everything handed to him on a silver platter without seeming to realise he's really just a pawn of those more powerful than himself... :o
Also adults withhold important things just because they feel like it, and you shouldn't ask too many inconvenient questions.
And all the people who criticise him, no matter why or what for, turn out to be malicious haters.
If you DO ask too many questions you'll be brushed off as if you're being really impertinent.
But anyone who doesn't like you is just a big mean jerk!
it's almost uncanny
Oh, you feel powerless? Too bad; you'll just have to work through that using your self-insert.
But even your all-powerful avatar will somehow be constantly at the beck and call of others, and ultimately reduced to just a tool of forces he can't understand.
I found that moment particularly telling. "My entire life has been stage-managed by a bunch of dragonballs? Sure, I'm okay with that. I don't care about having any sort of autonomy despite claiming otherwise on numerous occasions". Urgh.
WHY would Brom force people to swear AL oaths not to tell Eragon about his parentage?? It makes absolutely no sense! How has Eragon's lineage "placed him in danger"? It hasn't changed anything! ARGH!
This is SO obviously just a pathetic excuse for people keeping irrelevant secrets from Eragon just because.
"wait, did you say eragon bromsson? As in brom, that dickhead dragon rider who torched my farm because he thought my wife was too beautiful for me? Fuck that guy, and fuck you in extension to him!"
LOL!
I refuse to believe that Paolini "meticulously" plotted everything out in advance. This entire book is utterly disjointed.
Yeah, the odds of the series having been planned from the beginning is vanishingly small.
Well it's possible that he DID plan things out, but then ditched the plan entirely. Because his characters came to life so completely that they simply could not be stopped from going their own way! /sarcasm
so funny I forgot to laugh.
You're too kind.
This is the same guy who called his characters "meat puppets" and said they were born out of necessity. :/
yeah
my eyes rolled into the back of my head when he said the bit about listening to his characters.
So are they your puppets, or are they fully realised people with minds of their own? You can't have it both ways, bucko
they're fully realised people whom he treats like puppets.
Suuure they are.
Ugh, Oromis is STILL being lovingly described in uncomfortably erotic terms. Stop it. And Eragon is being told Really Important Stuff, yet he sits there and plays with his "crystal goblet" like he's bored in class. Oh, and let's make out like Brom, the utterly useless liability from book one, was actually some sort of uber-badass. What, the guy who couldn'thandle the Ra'zac and died for stupid reasons was somehow able to take down DRAGONS?? Not. Buying. It.
...Oromis the wise old elf seriously just used the term "figured out" *headdesk*
Boy, Eragon and Oromis sure are hitting the booze hard. And in the middle of the day, no less.
...and Oromis just used the phrase "than most any other Rider". Is this guy supposed to be an elf, or some guy from Tennessee?
"lissen heah now y'all, ah done just about had it with yew runnin' about with them there dwarves, y'heah?
Whoops, and Glaedr just said "for most any creature". Stop it with the Americanisms already!
Oh, and "dragons are the freest of all beings"? Don't make me laugh. You're a glorified pet, Glaedr.
he probably thinks it's an archaism.
Hah.
it's like when that dairy company used the song "born free" to describe their grass-fed cows.
"born free... so long as I stay within my assigned paddock and get milked for hours every day by a cold and heartless machine"
Happy cows come from Florida!
"A person must earn enlightenment, Eragon. It is not handed down to you by others". Yeah, about that, Oromis...
Meanwhile Eragon seems to have completely forgotten about the whole "Brom is your father" thing.
of course
I think he might have short-term memory loss.
If elves don't marry and rarely have kids, why do they have family houses, Game of Thrones style? Also, swords have "furniture" now?? o.0
Hm, I wonder if Paolini is a fan of Dragonball Z? "What's his power level?" "IT'S OVER 9000!"
I wouldn't be surprised, the way he writes fight scenes.
Plus there are, y'know, dragon balls...
And horribly dubbed dialogue. :p
The fact that no-one in the Cycle sounds like an actual person would make a lot more sense if the whole thing had been poorly translated from Japanese.
WHY is it so important for Eragon to get a new sword tailored just for him??
They're acting like him not having a proper Rider sword is something that will literally change the fate of the world! To quote DistinctVaguens - this is SO STUPID!
Also, why do we need to know that they broke to eat "a few bites of bread and cheese"? Where do the elves even GET cheese? Do they keep dairy cows - and therefore kill the calves for veal? Where do they get bread, for that matter? I don't recall them growing any wheat. Newsflash: There are no supermarkets in Alaglag! Characters can't just magically have access to things because you say so!
Pointless elf kids scene is pointless!!1 Even more so than the endless detailed description of the stupid sword being forged. Also, the "Kids with special powers they lose with age" is another alleged rip-off. *shakes head sadly*
What on earth was the purpose of putting the sword under a sheet? Rhunon isn't painted as a character who likes being dramatic just for the heck of it. It's completely ooc, not to mention just plain silly.
Apparently people in Alaglag know what puns are. And why is it so important to give the stupid sword a name? Eragon shows off his terrible sense of humour again... “let's call it Hope lol I'm so funny". And they're still acting like having a special Rider sword is super duper important because... Why? It's honestly presented as if the idiot couldn't possibly defeat Galbatorix, Mr Evil McEvilpants, unless he has a sword. Which later turns out to be nonsense anyway. He never does ANYTHING important with this sword! This whole sub-plot is a complete waste of time!
*headdesk*
Charging blindly at a solid stone wall is NOT how a siege works, you moron.
sure, it's him [Hattori Hanzo] in the white sheet instead of the sword, but it's not exactly a subtle "reference"
Kill Bill is far too awesome to be referenced by a book this awful.
what did you think Rhunon's oath no never make another sword was from?
here we have a yellow-haired youngster out for revenge on the man who killed his family, who seeks out the wise and elderly legendary swordsmith who is unequalled through the land. The swordsmith has made a sacred oath to never make another sword, but consents to do so because they are sympathetic to the blond warrior's goal.
the only original part of that is how Rhunon had to take telepathic control over Eragon's body to avoid killing herself by way of oathbreaking.
To be fair, book Eragon has brown hair, per word of author.
but the spirit of the oath was shattered if not the letter of it.
oh, right. I'd forgotten that bit, because of Ed Speleers.
Rhunon really isn't written as the sort of character inclined to not take such an oath seriously. If it's really that important to her, why is she suddenly prepared to drop the whole thing just because some spoilt brat refuses to put up with using an inferior weapon? Screw you and your whiny demanding arse, Ergy.
yeah, it's almost like Eragon, an orphan from a backwoods farming/hunting community who was raised in poverty, has never heard of the expressions "beggars can't be choosers" or "be grateful for what you're given".
Hah. His sense of entitlement is beyond ridiculous.
There was the scene where he was being shown the old Rider swords no longer in use.
Here’s an ancient weapon with few equals, made of a mysterious metal and imbued with magical powers
"eh, the grip feels weird in my hand".
like, wtf? Any normal person would be awed just to look at such a thing, especially if it had a storied history.
"Try this one, Eragon, it's called Excalibur and it was forged by a lake goddess from a broken prong from Poseidon's trident"
"eh, it's not quite my style"
dude, seriously?
Oh look, Eragon is still pretending to care about Sloan but doesn't actually do a damn thing to help the guy. Yes, putting a curse on the poor sod and then exchanging two words with him in Elftown is "doing all you can for him". Gimme a break.

And then Oromis blah-blahs for like six pages when the essence of this tedious exchange is basically "I'm going to go die now because I'm an idiot and now it's time to pass the torch on to you because the author is still pretending you've actually grown as a person". And then Glaedr hacks up a hairball, which is totally gross.

He's giving up his SOUL! Shouldn't the process be at least a little mystical and cool-looking, or at the very least be dignified? The thing has spit all over it!

I note, too, that Arya, a supposedly important character, has completely disappeared for like half the book and Ergy's barely thought about her. Isn't he supposed to have some sort of romance going on with her?

More stupid melodrama. "If you and Saphira die all will be darkness!!1" Oromis, Galbatorix is a slightly tyrannical dictator. He's not bloody Sauron, and he's not trying to destroy the entire universe or whatnot. This is so stupid.

Given that we know Paolini's dragons are models explicitly and without variation on the behaviour of cats, I find the eldunari/hairball comparison to be entirely apt.

It's kind of refreshing to see something so important presented in a manner other than angels and cherubic choroi (I checked, that is the correct plural of the Greek word chorus) as the McGuffin descends from on high in burst of light, etc. etc.

A generous person would say that Oromis's melodrama about the price of failure and the important of taking Galby down was intended and designed to awe and inspire the
credulous, gullible, and far too easily impressed Eragon.

I'm going to be ungenerous and take said melodrama as an example of Paolini using overblown Tolkien-esque proclamations of "the world will fall!" without any actual justification for it.

I think the dialogue in this lastish bit of Brisingr is just a step away from narm. closer or further I haven't decided yet.

There's an awful lot of narmy dialogue in this book.

At least Oromis never said "The battle for Belatona is finished. The battle for Alagaesia is about to begin".

In a book like this, it would fit way better for the giving of Glaedr's heart of hearts to be dramatic and magical to behold, especially given all the build-up. There's all this blah-blah about how big and important a dragon's Eldunari is, and how tragic it is that Galby has been enslaving the things... and when we actually get to see one it's hacked up like a lump of mucus.
ah, yeah. Sure, given the tone of the rest of the series Paolini should have made the eldunari-upchucking more grand and dignified, but I thought it was funny. Like that scene in one of the Shreks (2?) where Puss In Boots starts coughing up a hairball right after delivering an intense and dramatic ultimatum..
Yeah. Plus it's written in a way which implies that we're supposed to find it grand and awe-inspiring, etc.
And now Eragon is pretending to be troubled by the prospect of having to go into battle again. Nope, not buying it. He's never been written as frightened during combat. Quite the opposite, in fact. He's so calm and analytical during fights to the death it's actually a bit unnerving.

Remember how he pissed himself and started hyperventilating when faced by armies of Urgals/Empire soldiers during the previous two books? Me neither. He was perfectly fine with charging in and hacking them all to bits.

Nor did he panic or get scared when he realised a bunch of soldiers were coming his way in "Mercy Dragon Rider".

No, he patiently waited until they were close enough, and then slaughtered the lot of them.

Yup. Despite the fact that he has the power to TURN HIMSELF INVISIBLE!

or at the very minimal amount of effort, disguise himself (with illusions, etc.) as a travelling merchant or jack-of-all-trades so the soldiers will pass him.

That entire scene was complete nonsense. It should never have happened. I honestly have no idea why Paolini even wrote it. All it does is kill more time and make Eragon look like a complete psycho.

15 comments

[1]

Anonymous
September 8 2016, 00:16:06
Actually, viven that he wrote the eldurani as some vital organ, I don fin inapropiate that the procces of spitting it out was gross like spitting out a lung

He should hace made them “cristallized manifestations of tour consciousnes" por something like that. That would hace given room to a dignified prócess as Gladr could create the gem out of “thin air"

About the topic of the characters being cold and analytical un stressful scenes, to be “fair" with paolini, he must hace thought that he needed to focus One the actions and descriptiond rather than the emotions.

I can understand that, I falso struggle when i try to describe emotions.
But what i cannot understand is that he dos not even think that showing (not telling) emotions keeps people from caring forma the character

[1A]

theepistler
September 8 2016, 08:38:48

About the topic of the characters being cold and analytical un stressful scenes, to be “fair" with paolini, he must hace thought that he needed to focus One the actions and descriptiond rather than the emotions.

Too bad this isn't remotely how real people act. Paolini is really bad at portraying emotions - his characters experience them from time to time, and then forget all about it on the next page. There's this weird sense that an emotion is something you can just pick up and use, and then throw it away. And in dangerous situations his characters are never inconvenienced by fear, panic or adrenaline.

Paolini always chooses descriptions and analysis over emotion and character development. Which is why his characters are unlikable and undeveloped and his action scenes are incredibly boring to read.

I found the "spitting up" of the Eldunari ridiculous because this is clearly supposed to be a dramatic, moving scene of Glaedr giving up the very essence of his soul, etc., but what we're actually seeing is a giant talking cat hacking up a hairball. At the very least there could have been some blood, or a flash of light or something. It's just so... well, mundane. Which doesn't really fit with Paolini's usual overblown, overdramatic style.

[1A1]

Anonymous
September 8 2016, 15:28:48
This robotoc, emotionless writing reminds me of the Nostalgia critic's reviews of The las airbender and Júpiter ascending:
“this story is a chess pie e story: carácter goles there, character says that, pawn to king four"
"This focuses toó muchos un the small áreas and lacks investiment un what really matters"
“If the carácter dos not show any emotion, why should the audience show any emotion?"
“At the end, i don café what happens with this people"

[2]

Anonymous
September 8 2016, 07:10:49
In India, milk is a vital part of society. Despite this, the calf isn't killed, it gets to drink part of the milk from the udders everyday before the milk is taken. Even if this practise isn't common anymore, it has been this way for centuries atleast. Also, what are you basing the elves' lack of cattle from? You literally saw 1 village and 1 city in Du Weldenvarden.

[2A]

theepistler
September 8 2016, 08:30:45
Um, because the elves are supposed to be vegans and at no point is it so much as hinted at that they keep livestock or farm wheat? This bit stuck out to me because it's just randomly thrown in without explanation.

When something out of place is stuck in like this, it's not enough to explain it away by making assumptions. It's the job of the author to write things in a way that makes sense and is consistent. The elves live in a forest. Where the heck would they keep cows? "Bread and cheese" is an incredibly generic Ye Olde Fantasy food, and I'm willing to lay money that this is literally the only reason why this is in here. It's yet another example of Paolini putting things in because that's what the other authors do, and giving it no more thought than that. Do you really think he'd have an explanation as to where his precious elves get cheese if you actually asked him? I sincerely doubt it.

[3]

Anonymous
September 8 2016, 08:52:19
Ugh, Oromis is STILL being lovingly described in uncomfortably erotic terms.

It's been pointed out many times how much men are described in near homo-erotic ways in this series, but women, however, seem to not get the same treatment, such as talking about their curves or chest, etc. I might be mistaken, but I'm going by what's been mentioned here. I don't have the mental willpower to get past the second book, nor do I care to try. However, all this male eroticism reminds me of an interview where CP mentioned Frank Herbert's Dune, and said that the book's greatest fault was that the villain, Baron Harkonnen, was portrayed as a negative homosexual. Now, Dune's not a perfect book, and there's plenty of other things that can be pointed out as glaring faults, but I always found it odd that this would be what bothered him the most. Taking that back to the numerous examples of "uncomfortable eroticism" in the series, it really makes you wonder what CP is trying to say, consciously or subconsciously. Maybe it's nothing at all, and I'm grasping at straws here, but it does make you wonder, at least for a moment or two where this is all coming from when you take into account what he wrote and what he thinks about someone else's work.

-RR

[3A]

theepistler
September 8 2016, 09:35:06
It would be really nice to have more fantasy novels (especially for YA) with openly gay protagonists. Not only is representation important, and it would provide some much-needed role model for LBQT teens, but it would be something different. There's this annoying assumption that all fantasy heroes need to be tough, manly men (or naive but beautiful teenage girls).

No they don't. I have a nasty suspicion that some people don't like the idea of relating to someone who doesn't fit narrowly-defined gender roles. "This character is a bit girly... if I like him that might mean I'm gay or something!"

What we have in the Cycle is an interesting situation, because Eragon is never written as a manly kind of character. He's pasty-faced and hairless, doesn't have big muscles or a deep voice that's mentioned (in my head his voice is a constant high-pitched whine). He comes across as rather androgynous, honestly, and sexless as well. He doesn't seem to have any actual sexual thoughts about Arya, and has a weird habit of staring at other men's muscles and chests and whatnot. Or maybe the author is doing the staring, so to speak. This series isn't very good at keeping to a consistent 3rd person limited POV.

[3A1]

Anonymous
September 8 2016, 10:08:57
There's this annoying assumption that all fantasy heroes need to be tough, manly men (or naive but beautiful teenage girls).

When I was introduced to anime, I was also introduced to a world where fantasy characters weren't John Wayne tough, but rather feminine in their beauty, and yet, could slice a demon like it was nobody's business. The manly personality varies from culture to culture, and one I'd like to see more variety in the West. If CP was so bitter about Baron Harkonnen, maybe he should've written Eragon as openly gay... that would've been an interesting twist. Although I'm sure there's fanfiction for that as well @_@

-RR

[3A2]

torylltales
September 8 2016, 10:16:30
It would be really nice to have more fantasy novels (especially for YA) with openly gay protagonists.

I can't quite remember the name of it now, but there was one self-published fantasy trilogy I read years ago that was very sex-positive, with some really nice emotional bonding/relationships between characters, and also some less positive relationships AND the negative consequences/ramifications of them for the protagonist. I wish I remember what it was called, because it was about the healthiest and most realistic (i.e. it didn't shy away from details, almost bordering on pornography but rather less lurid that you might think) portrayal of non-traditional relationships in a fantasy setting that I have read so far.

[3A3]

torylltales
September 8 2016, 10:23:34
What we have in the Cycle is an interesting situation, because Eragon is never written as a manly kind of character. He's pasty-faced and hairless, doesn't have big muscles or a deep voice that's mentioned

What are you talking about, Eragon is more handsome than any elf, but more rugged than any man!

[3A3A]

theepistler
September 8 2016, 10:46:19 Edited: September 8 2016, 10:46:54
Actually it's "fairer than any man, more rugged than any elf", if memory serves. *eyeroll*
The level of wish fulfillment Mary Sueism in this series is utterly ludicrous.

[3A3A1]

Anonymous
September 8 2016, 11:44:45
Aren't elves hairless? I'm having a hard time believing any elfves that looks like a waxed male model on a cheap romance novel cover is anything but rugged. I demand Burt Reynolds circa 1970's level of hairiness or nothing! :P

-RR

[3A3A1A]

theepistler
September 8 2016, 17:04:11
Well Roran's got you covered there. *shudder*

[4]

Anonymous
September 8 2016, 15:55:12
"brom, that dickhead dragon rider who torched my farm because he thought my wife was too beautiful for me? Fuck that guy"

Lol, is this based on something from the actual story? I don't remember that incident but it is in character.

[5]

rhyson
September 12 2016, 12:54:56
"For most any creature" sounds more like a wtfism than an Americanism.


Original repost:


pangolin20 posting in as_sporkive, February 6th, 2026 08:00 AM