Inheritance Group Spork: Chapter Six

[pangolin20]

predak123 wrote in Antishurtugal, 2011-11-29 01:54:00

LOCATION: Mossflower
MOOD: accomplished

Chapter 6: Memories of the Dead (Official Spork)

In which I over-analyze everything for your enjoyment.

Chapter 6, Memories of the Dead, is much like the previous chapters in that nothing important happens.

The chapter starts with a memory of Brom. Eragon is using Saphira's magical Tivo abilities to play back part of the message Brom had her record in the event of his untimely death.

“Galbatorix is mad and therefore unpredictable, but he also has gaps in his reasoning that an
ordinary person would not. If you can find those, Eragon, then perhaps you and Saphira can
defeat him.”

This is something that bothers me a lot about villains. Very often, they are labeled as being “mad” or “crazy,” when they give no indication of being such. The only insane thing that Galbatorix has ever done is in NOT immediately wiping the Varden off the face of the earth.

Eragon snaps out of the memory into the real world, and we got some lovely and very necessary prose:

“Eragon opened his eyes as the memory faded. Above him, the ceiling of the tent sagged inward, as loose as an empty waterskin, after the battering it had received during the now-departed storm. A drop of water fell from the belly of a fold, struck his right thigh, and soaked through his leggings, chilling the skin beneath. He knew he would have to go tighten up the tent’s support ropes, but he was reluctant to move from the cot.”

Truly, Paolini is a master of the art of writing.

What season is this supposed to be taking place? One of the strengths of the first book (at least for the first hundred pages or so) was that Paolini actually paid attention to the seasons, instead of having a perpetual summer-time. Here, I have no idea when this is taking place. Is it spring? Autumn? Winter? I have no idea. And either that was a really, really bad storm, or the Varden aren't particularly good at setting up tents, because at least in my experience, tents are designed in such a way that water runs off of them. It doesn't collect on the tent's roof to form a sag “as loose as an empty waterskin.”

Eragon asks Saphira if Brom ever said anything about Murtaugh, to which Saphira says “Asking again won't change my answer,” which is rather curt. I don't know why Eragon and Saphira are always so rude to each other. Anyway, Saphira tells Eragon that he must trust Brom and not be bothered by his deceit and lies. This spurs Eragon to examine his thumbs for a paragraph.

No, seriously.

“Eragon stared down his chest at his thumbs. He placed them side by side, to better compare them. His left thumb had more wrinkles on its second joint than did his right, while his right had a small, ragged scar that he could not remember getting, although it must have happened since the Agaetí Blödhren, the
Blood-oath Celebration.”

Along with a fascination for geology-related metaphors, Paolini seems to have also developed a thing for writing about thumbs. There are at least three thumb-related incidents explained in great detail in this book—so there's something to look forward to.

I have to wonder if Paolini was suddenly hit with writer's block, then looked down at his hands and said, “Ya know what? Eragon is totally going to be looking at his thumbs” and then wrote about what his own hands look like. And for some reason his editor thought that his exercise to remove writer's-block was somehow good enough to make it into a published book.

Eragon thinks about how he enjoys Saphira's video-recording abilities because he feels better when he knows who his dad was, which was “a desire that had plagued him his entire life,” even though he didn't really seem to show any angst about his paternity in the first book.

Eragon eats and rests for another hour, and another drop of water hits his leg. He gets out of his cot and disarms his magical traps before going to retrieve Glaedr's ball, which is buried in the ground.

“The dirt began to seethe like water coming to a boil, and rising out of the churning fountain of rocks,
insects, and worms, there emerged an ironbound chest a foot and a half in length.”

“Seethe” is one of these words that Paolini uses that is technically correct, but still feels very clunky. I get a mental image of a patch of earth getting irritated at me for going at it with a shovel. Also, if we take the archaic meaning of seethe (which is what I'm assuming Paolini meant), then “seethe” means “to boil,” which makes “like water coming to a boil” entirely redundant. Plus, the sentence is badly organized and could be reduced to half its length without losing anything. It's really sad to see that Paolini hasn't matured at all as a writer, and that his editor doesn't seem to care to help him improve.

Eragon magically unlocks the box and opens it (and yes, we get all of the detail for that) and he pulls out Glaedr's dragon-ball.

“The large, jewel-like stone glittered darkly, like a dying ember.”

Question. If it is a stone, and it is jewel-like, in what way is it NOT a jewel?

I don't take issue with the oxymoron of “glittered darkly,” but I do take issue with a “dying ember” being used to further explain glittering. As an self-proclaimed expert of glitter (and confetti!), I can say with a certainty that the sparkle and reflectiveness of glittery things does not look like a dying ember. Embers provide their own light, and it's a steady, pulsing glow. Glittering things are reflective; they flash when light hits them. It's an instantaneous sparkle. It's not the same kind of light.

Eragon looks into the rock and sees “a galaxy of tiny stars” within it, which is supposed to represent Glaedr's consciousness inside it. The “stars” float around, but Eragon notes that their movement is slower than when Eragon first got to hold Glaedr's stone.

“As always, the sight fascinated Eragon; he could have sat watching the ever-changing pattern for days.”

Now that we've established that Eragon is marginally more interesting than the hero Fragon, who likes to watch paint dry, but marginally less interesting than Gragon, who likes to watch grass grow, we can go on with the story.

Eragon and Saphira decide to try to delve into Glaedr's consciousness to get him out of his blue funk. Apparently, they have to wade through Glaedr's emotional landscape before they can reach him. I don't know why this is, but. . .then again, this is Paolini we're talking about.

“Through cold and darkness they sailed, then heat and despair and indifference so vast and so great, it sapped their will to do anything other than to stop and weep.”

Wow, really? I gotta say, Eragon's mental fortitude isn't particularly impressing me. A little bit of someone else's depression makes Eragon cry. As a professional sad person, I gotta say that that's pretty pathetic.

Arya knocks on Eragon's tent-pole (but not like that) and asks if she can come in.

“The dim gray light from the cloudy sky fell upon him as Arya pushed aside the entrance flap. He felt a
sudden pang as his eyes met hers—green, slanted, and unreadable—and an ache of longing filled him.”

[Insert immature joke of choice here]
You know, I'm beginning to think that Eragon really IS the “male Bella.” They both spend months and months pining for a bitchy, unlikeable, and emotionally absent character for the sole reason that they are pretty and non-human.

“Has there been any change?” she asked, and came to kneel by him. Instead of armor, she was wearing
the same black leather shirt, trousers, and thin-soled boots as when he had rescued her in Gil’ead. Her
hair was damp from washing and hung down her back in long, heavy ropes. The scent of crushed pine
needles attended her, as it so often did, and it occurred to Eragon to wonder whether she used a spell to
create the aroma or if that was how she smelled naturally. He would have liked to ask her, but he did not dare.”

Question. Why the HELL would Arya willingly wear the clothing she was wearing when she was viciously and repeatedly tortured? Wouldn't that be a bit like an ex-prisoner saying “You know what? My old prison-stripes are so smashing and in fashion this season!”?

Another question. If the smell of pine needles is artificial/magical, does that mean that in book 1, after she was rescued, she was subconsciously wasting magical resources in order to smell nice? Wouldn't that be unbelievably stupid, and therefore off the table as an option?

Because touching Glaedr's ball is such a popular activity, Arya asks if she can touch his rock. While Arya is trying very hard to penetrate Glaedr's cloud of sadness, Eragon takes the opportunity to ogle her.

“While she sat, he took the opportunity to study her with an openness and intensity that would have been offensive otherwise. In every aspect, she seemed the epitome of beauty, even though he knew that another might say her nose was too long, or her face too angled, or her ears too pointed, or her arms too muscled.”

See? SEE? Her nose is too long and stuff! She's NOT perfectly perfect and beautiful (even though she's the “epitome of beauty”)!

Arya snaps out of mentally talking to the rock.

“He is the most unhappy creature I have ever met.… I would we could help him. I do not think he will be able to find his way out of the darkness on his own.”

I had a sudden mental image of this shiny yellow rock sitting on a psychiatrist's couch and talking about its relationship with its mother.

Moving on.

Eragon asks if Arya thinks that Glaedr will go mad, and Arya says he might be already, or else he's on the “very cusp” of going koo-koo.

Again, with the crazy thing. Look, Paolini. While depression might accompany psychosis, being depressed does not, in fact, make you go crazy! Ugh, I hate this. I get this a lot, where I tell people that I have bipolar depression, and their eyes go wide and they say “oh,” as if I'm going to swing into crazy-mode at any possible second. I have never ever heard of a healthy person becoming genuinely insane after losing a loved one, with the loss being the direct cause without any other factors.

Eragon asks Arya if she has the Plot Device/Dauthdaert in her tent, and she says yes. Saphira spots one of Horst's sons running for the tent, so Eragon quickly puts the ball in the box and reburies it. The son (Eragon can't tell if it's Baldor or Albriech) tells Eragon that Elaine is finally having her baby, and she wants Eragon on Magical Paramedic standby. Arya asks if she can tag along, and Eragon of course consents.

By the way, we won't get to see the baby being born for another three chapters or so. Isn't the suspense thrilling?

So, kiddos, what have we learned today? Aside from the fact that Paolini cannot pace a plot properly to save his life, I mean.

70 comments

[1]

torylltales
November 29 2011, 11:50:51 UTC
"I have to wonder if Paolini was suddenly hit with writer's block, then looked down at his hands and said, “Ya know what? Eragon is totally going to be looking at his thumbs” and then wrote about what his own hands look like. And for some reason his editor thought that his exercise to remove writer's-block was somehow good enough to make it into a published book."

I have to wonder if Paolini suddenly got hit with writer's block and said "Ya know what? I'm going to write a bunch of irrelevant bullshit side-quests!" and then he wrote Brisingr. And for some reason his editor thought that exercise to remove writer's block was somehow good enough to be made into a book.

"
“Through cold and darkness they sailed, then heat and despair and indifference so vast and so great, it sapped their will to do anything other than to stop and weep.”"

Absolutely gripping prose, isn't it? Almost like writing "it was very morbid." This is one of those scenes where - if it were necessary to the plot - we don't need a summary, we need details. We need to be shown how great Gladder's depression is, not simply told "it was very vast".

"Now that we've established that Eragon is marginally more interesting than the hero Fragon, who likes to watch paint dry, but marginally less interesting than Gragon, who likes to watch grass grow, we can go on with the story."

Actually, I kind of disagree with you there. I like the fact that Eragon, despite being a superhuman half-elf demigod whose will reshapes the world and who is more handsome than any elf and more rugged than any man still has enough personality in him to be fascinated by shinies. It's a basic thing, but it's a very old animal instinct to be attracted to shiny glittery things because they look like clean, potable water. Which is important to be able to find and judge the quality of.

Anyway, I defy you to find one human who hasn't occasionally caught themselves staring blankly into a fishtank watching the play of light on water, or watching the shape of flames in a fire. It's a universal human instinct.

"You know, I'm beginning to think that Eragon really IS the “male Bella.” They both spend months and months pining for a bitchy, unlikeable, and emotionally absent character for the sole reason that they are pretty and non-human."

This is so true. Both are hollow imitations of character, both are shallow-minded enough to judge people based on looks or race or social status instead of individuality, and both are willing to put themselves in unnecessary mortal danger to be with the object of their obsession.

[1A]

predak123
November 29 2011, 12:04:15 UTC
XD About the Brisingr thing.

On the shiny thing; it doesn't bother me that Eragon likes the shinies--I do too. But for DAYS? A little bit excessive, unless you're a were-raccoon or something.

[1A1]

lady_licht
November 29 2011, 17:14:08 UTC
Shinies and anything fluffy XD

[1A1A]

predak123
November 29 2011, 18:03:03 UTC
Well, of course! Those along with chocolate are pretty much the best three things in life! ;)

[1A2]

fcalfbreaker
November 29 2011, 18:41:49 UTC
You know what, that would be an amazing twist of events if he were.

[2]

maegwin_of_hern
November 29 2011, 13:01:59 UTC
Not having read the second and third book (and I certainly won't start with this one), I don't know what the deal with Glaedr is. Is he dead? Undead? Imprisoned in this stone? In a comatose state?

[2A]

13thscorpio
November 29 2011, 17:30:50 UTC
His soul is trapped in a crystal pokemon ball of sorts. That he did himself.

[2A1]

fireez
November 29 2011, 17:39:47 UTC
oh god. Now I'm imagining the final battle of Eragon vs Galby to be like the battles in Pokemon.

"Eragon uses thesaurus! It missed by a mile!"

[2A2]

charlottehywd
November 30 2011, 04:33:33 UTC
Gotta catch 'em all?

[2B]

swankivy
November 29 2011, 17:43:42 UTC
The plot device of dragon hearts--Eldunarí--was introduced in book 3. Dragons can decide whether to store themselves/their consciousness in their Eldunarí so that they can disgorge it (at which point it looks like a big precious stone). And I guess that's so they can communicate with people who are far away from them; the dragon will still be alive, but the human (or whatever) holding the Eldunarí will be able to be in mental contact with the dragon. If they die, though, the Eldunarí is all that's left and their consciousness will remain. That's what happened with Glaedr. Of course, as soon as he disgorged his Eldunarí and gave it to Eragon, you totally knew he was gonna die. Eldunarí with the stored magic of dragons is also where Galbatorix's power comes from. He has a ton of them.

[2B1]

maegwin_of_hern
November 29 2011, 21:37:30 UTC
If they die, though, the Eldunarí is all that's left and their consciousness will remain.
This sounds horrible and reminds me strongly of the "And I Must Scream" trope o_O

[2B1A]

13thscorpio
November 29 2011, 22:32:30 UTC
Kinda like the soul gems from Elder Scrolls. I'm finding way too many things like that in here just glancing at what is being read and all. Maybe I should ditch Skyrim for a bit.

[2B2]

Anonymous
December 20 2011, 02:57:53 UTC
I don't know why I didn't think of this until just now, but isn't that description of an Eldunari EXACTLY like how Magicite works in Final Fantasy VI? Espers can either give their lives up to transform into powerful magicite, or be killed and turned into slightly less powerful magicite. The espers who give up their lives willingly get to communicate with the person holding their magicite shard. Hell, they're both magical plot devices that act as the villain's main source of power! They're the same thing!

[3]

distinctvaguens
November 29 2011, 14:48:36 UTC
"One of the strengths of the first book (at least for the first hundred pages or so) was that Paolini actually paid attention to the seasons."

If by paid attention, you mean made references to weather which made no sense then yes. :P Merchants coming in winter or mentioning heavy snow then suddenly all mention of weather cuts out the explanation of a harvest seemed off too.

"Eragon thinks about how he enjoys Saphira's video-recording abilities because he feels better when he knows who his dad was, which was “a desire that had plagued him his entire life,” even though he didn't really seem to show any angst about his paternity in the first book."

Very good point, he whined more about his mother than his father for sure.

"Now that we've established that Eragon is marginally more interesting than the hero Fragon, who likes to watch paint dry, but marginally less interesting than Gragon, who likes to watch grass grow, we can go on with the story."

But later we find out he finds watching a ROCK grow interesting. >_>

"So, kiddos, what have we learned today? Aside from the fact that Paolini cannot pace a plot properly to save his life, I mean."

Basically the first half of this book can be summarized in a paragraph and that's including everything that is even slightly important.

Good job with this chapter. It holds many examples of the problems in the book. Badly described "emotional" over-dramatic moments which are immediately snapped out of. Bizarre illogical retconning. Random magical powers for anything. Arya obsessing. Bad description: overlong description, illogical description, vague description, redundant description and poor poetic description. General errors in logic, research, word choice, and overall lacking any point. Also through this early part of the book, they make a big deal of proclaiming how tired Eragon is getting using magic all the time yet he only keeps using magic all the time. No real consequences just threats
of them.

[3A]

white_wolf03
November 30 2011, 02:34:45 UTC
A growing rock?

[3A1]

distinctvaguens
November 30 2011, 07:05:05 UTC
Yep. In Chapter 23.

[3A2]

predak123
November 30 2011, 10:13:53 UTC
Technically, it's a ball of dirt that will eventually LOOK like rock. It has no relevance to the plot at all and it just Paolini saying "omg look at this cool thing I found".

[4]
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[4A]

predak123
November 29 2011, 18:28:29 UTC
But wait! There's more!

"The edge of his right thumbnail tore as [Roran] picked at the mug again. He rubbed the sharp flap against his forefinger several times. “I thought I was going to die when the wall fell.”"

"Eragon returned Brisingr to its sheath, then ran to Saphira and clambered up her side, cutting the pad of his left thumb on one of her scales as he did so. . .He licked the blood off his thumb, then pulled on his gauntlets, hoping that the cut would not bleed too much into the glove."

And yes, he COULD just use magic to fix it! BUT HE DOESN'T!

And this isn't even going into the weird fingernail-fascination later on in the book. I'm wondering if Paolini got a manicure or at least read a book about them and thought, "Hey, I'mma gonna put this in my book! It'll be so GRITTY and REALISTIC!"

[4A1]

fcalfbreaker
November 29 2011, 18:31:26 UTC
Of course he doesn't.

[4A1A]
Deleted comment

[4A1A1]

distinctvaguens
November 29 2011, 22:21:48 UTC
Maybe. I've been wondering if Paolini is just trolling us sometimes. On page 398 he used vociferously, vehemence and veracity in the same paragraph. Coincidence? I think not.

[4A1A1A]

quenbolyn
November 29 2011, 22:54:52 UTC
Nah, I think that just means he had his dictionary open to the letter "V".

[4A1A1A1]

distinctvaguens
November 29 2011, 23:00:05 UTC
Well that still wouldn't be coincidence. He must think he's sooooo clever one way or the other.

[4A1A1A1A]

fcalfbreaker
November 30 2011, 14:39:00 UTC
Some nights I lie in bed thinking about what I would do if I could get paid to write a shitty novel.

It would totally be worse than all those books combined. But it would still be readable enough that by the end of it people will go, "Oh noes! I wasted time!"

One can only dream...

[4C]

distinctvaguens
November 29 2011, 19:03:56 UTC
My guess is a few times he got writer's block. He spaced out then noticed his hands there on the keyboard. BRILLIANT! I'll write about that!!! I'll even make it a (relatively) significant plot point!!

[5]

fireez
November 29 2011, 16:47:19 UTC
[Insert immature joke of choice here]
"Is that an ache of longing in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?" *ba-dish!*

Also, um, how can that air freshener smell "attend to" Arya? Has it developed personhood somehow? I'm just wondering because from all I know, "attend to" means "to pay attention to" or "take care of".

"it occurred to Eragon to wonder" - how about "Eragon wondered"? No need for superflous words. But perhaps CP thinks that MOAR WORDS = better book. Especially more thesaurus-rapey words.

[5A]

predak123
November 29 2011, 18:21:52 UTC
"Is that an ache of longing in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?" *ba-dish!*

No joke, I literally laughed out loud. Thanks for that. XD

I didn't even notice the "attended to." I'm wondering if we should attribute this to Paolini's odd fascination with his archaic thesaurus, or to just the usual bad word choice.

[5A1]

fireez
November 29 2011, 18:35:58 UTC
Immature jokes, especially of the sleazy kind, are my specialty :P.

I say it's his thesaurus fetish. "OMG LOOK AT THAT WORD I WANNA USE IT IT'S SO COOOOOOOOOL!11!!"

[5B]

fcalfbreaker
November 29 2011, 18:37:06 UTC
So according to Wikipedia, this book ends with just more melodrama...? *sigh*

[5B1]
Deleted comment

[5B1A]

charlottehywd
November 30 2011, 04:38:40 UTC
Is it at least really the last one?

[5B1A1]
Deleted comment

[5B1A1A]

fireez
November 30 2011, 08:24:35 UTC
Well if he's real, Paolini will get coal in his stocking for the rest of his life for writing this abomination.

[5B1B]

fcalfbreaker
November 30 2011, 14:33:47 UTC
Dammit, Eragon, just be a man and be a pinecone to her pine sap. Or something equally disturbing.

[5B1B1]
Deleted comment

[5B1B1A]

fcalfbreaker
November 30 2011, 19:08:34 UTC
It must be creepy for her to realize all he does is sniff her.

[5C]

quenbolyn
November 29 2011, 22:57:12 UTC
"it occurred to Eragon to wonder"

That just gives me an image of him putting his finger to chin in a thoughtful manner and saying "Gee, I think I'll wonder now." Which... makes my brain hurt. :P

[5C1]

fireez
November 30 2011, 08:27:54 UTC
That's exactly how I pictured it. A lot of Paolini's use of language makes my brain hurt...

[6]

lady_licht
November 29 2011, 17:20:30 UTC
"“The large, jewel-like stone glittered darkly, like a dying ember.”
...
Eragon looks into the rock and sees “a galaxy of tiny stars” within it..."

Fuuuuuu it's a dragon-ball!

Nothing much to add. Just: This is what you get when not planning your story at all.

[6A]

fcalfbreaker
November 29 2011, 18:40:53 UTC
Now make a wish Eragon! Make a wish!

[6B]

distinctvaguens
November 29 2011, 19:05:19 UTC
I was wondering if it was a bad reference to 2001 A Space Odyssey "It's full of stars!"

[6B1]

predak123
November 29 2011, 19:19:10 UTC
Dammit, I was going to mention that in my spork but completely forgot about it! XD

[6C]

quenbolyn
November 29 2011, 22:58:08 UTC
It makes me think of the galaxy on the cat's collar in Men in Black. :D

[7]

swankivy
November 29 2011, 17:38:18 UTC
Hee, this kind of thing is what makes me wish I hadn't been really busy since the time Inheritance was released. Just about everyone who's sporking as they go or has read the whole thing has made fun of this paragraph about Eragon's thumbs. I did so too, and then I saw everyone else was doing it. Now I don't feel very original. Heh. (Mine was just a side comment though. Like "My life is complete now that I have a detailed understanding of what Eragon's thumbs look like.")

I've gotta wonder why, if dragons are so deep and mysterious and have this whole world in their minds, how come narration from a dragon is so ridiculously trite and superficial? Oh yeah, because Paolini wrote it.

I think the pine-needle thing is Paolini trying to make elves significantly non-human instead of humans with pointy ears. He's trying to do that by making their minds full of singing as well. It's pretty derpy. I'd like to know why she smells like a tree too, but he's probably just clumsily trying to make elves seem "natural." I kinda think elves should smell like elves. 'Course, the furry elf smells like smexiness or something.

And yes, the insensitivity in handling descriptions of mentally and physically ill people in this book is annoying. Especially since as far as I'm concerned, lapsing into a deep depression of sorts, or withdrawal from the world, or GRIEF, is actually the sane response to losing an important person. Whaaat.

[7A]

distinctvaguens
November 29 2011, 18:57:35 UTC
How dare you be depressed and not help me! I know he was the most important person in your life for a century just died but could you just give me some more exposition and plot devices please! NOW!!

[7A1]

swankivy
November 29 2011, 19:26:44 UTC
Yeah. And I'm pretty sure it was way longer than a century. He was one of the original Riders or something.

Not to mention that Glaedr, in addition to losing his rider, is also probably KIND OF ADJUSTING TO BEING DEAD AND STUFF. He can't see or hear or move on his own and has just been dealt the worst blow a dragon can experience.

Yeah, gee, I guess reacting badly to such things is "insane." I kinda feel like him even being willing to talk to anyone in the same DECADE constitutes an awfully quick recovery.

[7A1A]

distinctvaguens
November 29 2011, 19:48:26 UTC
So my exaggeration was a severe underestimate. XD

"KIND OF ADJUSTING TO BEING DEAD AND STUFF" yeah that could take some getting used to and provide interesting information or topics for this book which would be relevant or interesting... but no no mention of it at all.

Besides, dragon afterlife in Paolini's hands would probably just be vague cloudy niceness with all the juicy scrumptious meat one could eat.

[7A1A1]

swankivy
November 29 2011, 20:18:48 UTC
Yeah. Paolini makes it seem like Glaedr is almost being unreasonable. I like the idea of his sadness being so vast and unfathomable that it makes people cry without understanding it, but I don't like that that is suggested to be "insane," and I don't like that he "recovers" quickly enough to be a plot device. It can't be such a deep sorrow that it drowns you if you can also be cool with participating in sword-fighting training. Ooh, and random storytelling, as entertainment.

[7A1A1A]

predak123
November 30 2011, 10:16:10 UTC
Of course he's being unreasonable! Having logical emotional responses in Eragonland is grounds for being locked up!

[7A1A1A1]

swankivy
November 30 2011, 19:19:48 UTC
I know right? In my upcoming essay I point out how there's this part where Eragon attends an elf funeral and has to tell the elf queen that the elf died, and the narration discusses how he's "confused" over the queen being so upset over the elf's death, because "he didn't think they even knew each other very well" or something. Eragon is CONFUSED WHEN SOMEONE'S UPSET OVER SOMEONE DYING. And yet the only time he acts upset about it is when he's busy blaming Elva for it. >:(

[8]

feistyfitz
November 29 2011, 20:30:09 UTC
"I would we could help him"?

Does that totally read wrong for anyone except me?

[8A]

mage_apprentice
November 29 2011, 20:40:14 UTC
You're not the only one, but I think it's a typo on the part of predak. Typos like that happen when you're typing something from a different text.

[8A1]

swankivy
November 29 2011, 21:06:20 UTC
It's not a typo; I comment on this in my essay. I say you're in trouble if your dialogue is so bad that we can't actually tell if you just made a mistake or you're trying (and not succeeding) to simulate an archaic, artful dialect.

[8A1A]

mage_apprentice
November 29 2011, 21:42:51 UTC
Holy cow! Paolini's editor is NOT doing her job! I know it's been said before but . . . damn!

[8A1A1]

predak123
November 30 2011, 02:18:45 UTC
It really shows how much I've been reading archaic language; I didn't think twice about the awkward phrasing. XD

[8A1A1A]

mage_apprentice
November 30 2011, 02:23:52 UTC
Well, it means less of a headache for you. >.>

[8B]

maegwin_of_hern
November 29 2011, 20:40:52 UTC
I've only heard something like that once in the videogame Dragon Age, where one character says "Would that I could, my friend". I'm not a native speaker, so I thought this was just an unusual or old way of saying "I wish I could".

[8B1]

syntinen_laulu
November 29 2011, 21:17:14 UTC
Correct: it's the past tense of the verb "will", used as here:

Shakespeare, in 1616 (As you Like It): Heaven would that she these gifts should have.
John Bunyan, in 1682: He would that Captain Credence should join himself with them.
Tennyson, in 1868: Because I would not one of thine own doves / Not ev'n a rose, were offer'd to thee.
(Shakespeare's and Bunyan's contemporaries would have spoken like that in the street: Tennyson in 1868 was being archaic and 'poetic'.)

"Would that I could" and "Would that it were" are still occasionally used as 'fossil phrases', but anyone using it as Paolini does here in an ordinary sentence deserves to be shot. (Unless they are J R R Tolkien, who has the excuse of being a scholar of Old and Middle English who probably talked like that more naturally than he spoke modern English.) It's as bad as making your characters say "Odds bodikins!" or "Marry and forsooth!"

[8B1A]

predak123
November 30 2011, 10:17:28 UTC
. . .I'm not allowed to use Odds bodkins? :'(

[8B1A1]

syntinen_laulu
November 30 2011, 21:38:23 UTC
Only on TalklikeaRestorationFop Day.

[8B1B]

Anonymous
November 30 2011, 22:25:25 UTC
...but anyone using it as Paolini does here in an ordinary sentence deserves to be shot.

Especially when he doesn't even do it right. There should be a "that" after "would", shouldn't there?

And regarding Tolkien... So many fantasy authors muck about with made-up languages and archaicish English because Tolkien did it and they think that's what is required to create so-called "true" high fantasy, but it seems none of them gets that Tolkien did it out of genuine passion for languages and linguistics; he was, as you said, an actual scholar in these subjects.

[8C]

swankivy
November 29 2011, 21:07:30 UTC
I comment on this in my essay, actually--this exact spot. I point out that if we can't even tell whether your attempt at archaic writing is intentional or a mistake, you have a problem.

[8C1]

feistyfitz
November 29 2011, 21:23:20 UTC
It's true. There's several examples of this in the book, if I recall?

Can't wait to read this essay, when will you be posting it? :D

[8C1A]

swankivy
November 30 2011, 06:30:31 UTC
There are a lot of attempts at making the writing sound . . . I don't know, something other than modern or straightforward. It's really hard overall to tell what he's trying to do since it all sounds silly.

I'll post the essay when I finish it. I think I'm about halfway through the book now. I will then have to format it, clean it up, possibly edit it down a little since it's, uh, already long, and then write an abridged version of it with the most important chunks summarized. It shouldn't take me as long to finish the second half as the first half took me, because I had a houseguest during part of the beginning of November.

[9]

mage_apprentice
November 29 2011, 20:36:21 UTC
*sigh* Why does Paolini treat insanity like it's some motivation or condition that takes over a person? Insanity is never the reason why someone acts, it's just a condition that might explain how a person thinks (and a very vague one at that, judging from the different psychosis). I might have a character that's insane and jumps to irrational conclusions, but it never motivates them or necessarily defines or takes over their life.

[9A]

swankivy
November 29 2011, 21:11:48 UTC
"He did it because he's craaaazy" is just a symptom of bad storytelling. It's ever so weak. Considering Galbatorix is credited as having gone mad because he lost his dragon (and is still "mad" hundreds of years later), I wonder why Glaedr is considered trustworthy to make decisions? I dunno, maybe Glaedr should somehow take over the world and be so cruel as to impose unreasonable taxes too.

[9A1]

mage_apprentice
November 29 2011, 21:47:04 UTC
Not to mention, Paolini really doesn't know what severe depression is, judging from how he handles it here. Granted, I've never been depressed, but I know what it looks like. What Paolini is writing is not severe depression but rather an impression of depression coming from someone who's never meet someone who experienced depression of any sort.

[9A1A]

swankivy
November 30 2011, 06:31:16 UTC
Yeah. Guess they just wallow in sadness and seem irrational and unreachable. Feh.

[10]

darth_gojira
November 29 2011, 20:38:40 UTC
He'd write about Arya's thumbs touching a rock, but it would make him orgasm

[10A]

swankivy
November 29 2011, 21:09:55 UTC
Probably, considering how many times anything and everything is described using geological similes.

I'm counting them. Right now "ruby" is winning. I can't remember whether the second runner up is "iron" or "stone." (I'm not counting when he actually is talking about something made of iron or stone.)

[11]

charlottehywd
November 30 2011, 04:46:25 UTC
Does anyone else find it odd how much Eragon and Saphira seem to hate each other? I mean, for supposedly destined friends/partners, they snipe at each other a lot.

Also, I love the Eragon/Bella comparison. I never did see what was so great about Arya. She seemed rather full of herself to me.

[11A]

distinctvaguens
November 30 2011, 07:03:13 UTC
Yeah I noticed that all throughout the series. It's like Paolini tried to invoke that joking way of insulting we might develop with a close friend except he never developed that friendship. He rarely shows them even being friendly to each other. They generally are always curt with one another and since trying to write friendly sarcasm is difficult it just reads like they are bitter toward each other... Great, another idea for how to rewrite this series. Paired by destiny, except they can't stand each other. Probably been done before.

[11A1]

kevias
November 30 2011, 08:35:29 UTC
He probably read some of Brust's work and is trying to write Saphira as Loiosh.

The problem is that Saphira and Eragon never really banter or share jokes or anything. Paolini is never clear whether they're supposed to be in a mind meld or can just talk mentally. I wouldn't mind their link shifting back in forth in intensity, but he doesn't acknowledge any kind of change either.

[11A2]

charlottehywd
November 30 2011, 19:00:20 UTC
Sounds like a badly done version of Pride and Prejudice, actually. Except with the genders reversed, so maybe more like North and South? (Arya is certainly as b*tchy as Margaret Hale is, so probably a better fit)

*is a nerd*