Brisingr Spork, Part 8: The Trial of the Long Knives (Part Two of Two)

[pangolin20]

Pixen wrote in Antishurtugal, 2016-12-26 21:47:00

Brisingr Spork, Part 8: The Trial of the Long Knives (Part Two of Two)

On the Twelfth Day of Christmas my true love gave to me,
Fadawar's drummers drumming,
An elven Pipedream piping,
Ten tribesmen talking
Nasuada stripping
One maid awaiting
Human gods invented
Six Nighthawks hovering
Five previous scaaaars!
Four sleevéd drums
Three silly-similes
"Two" much padding
and a Deus Ex Machinaaaaa...
Merry Christmas and Boxing Day to all! Hope antis everywhere are having a fantastic holiday season no matter the hemisphere you hail from.

As he was the one who had issued the challenge, Fadawar went first. He held his left arm straight out from his shoulder, palm upward; placed the blade of his knife against his forearm, just below the crease of his elbow; and drew the mirror-polished edge across his flesh. His skin split like an overripe berry, blood welling from within the crimson crevice.

Alright, so it's truly trial time.

If Fadawar's skin really did act like an overripe berry wouldn't it bruise inwards quite dramatically straight away and smush the entire thing in a mess of juice and pulp? See, this thing about strange unhelpful similes cropping up again. Our skin doesn't act anything like the skin of a berry, ripe or otherwise. See, we have this thing called skin layers, each one doing its bit to protect against infection in different ways.

For those meanwhile distracted by the fact that someone just cut themselves with an extremely sharp knife (ignoring the irritating crimson crevice alliteration) yes, this is canonically something these tribes do.

Theirs was a test of wills to discover who could withstand the most cuts. The belief was that whoever aspired to become the chief of a tribe, or even a warlord, should be willing to endure more pain than anyone else for the sake of his or her people. Otherwise, how could the tribes trust their leaders to place the concerns of the community before their own selfish desires? It was Nasuada’s opinion that the practice encouraged extremism, but she also understood the ability of the gesture to earn people’s trust. Although the Trial of the Long Knives was specific to the dark-skinned tribes, besting Fadawar would solidify her standing among the Varden and, she hoped, King Orrin’s followers.

I think this simplification on the act throws up all sorts of issues. Are there simply no tribe members who personally believe that the ritual has the potential to endanger one's life and thus shows the reverse message that they simply have no concern for their own safety? Does that thought just not exist in Paoland?

What about people aspiring to be warlords or chiefs that maybe can't mentally stand the sight or smell of blood, but have the amazing instincts and the learned smarts to lead well? Guess they're shit out of luck when someone who lack those same attributes are able to win against them simply by challenging them to the Trial and making one tiny cut - watching as the one who would be better suited for the job faints dead away.

What about people who mentally have no issue with this but physically can't? I know they exist - I'm one of them. I can't even give blood because my body will simply start shutting down - dizzy spells, nausea, fading senses, etc.

So sometimes, taking flesh wounds isn't just about enduring pain to prove to others they're willing to take intense pain on for them in future. What makes this concept even more complicated - everyone's mileage and opinions will probably vary here wildly - is that this story is not in a vacuum. At the height of the series's popularity, it was being read. By young adults. Some of whom may have self harmed. disclaimer don't be concerned I'm not speaking from personal experience

I don't know. I just sometimes have to take a step back here past the prose and story and think, why did Nasuada's Trial even have to involve taking a knife to one's arm? Seriously, real life tribes and communities on Earth do some amazingly inventive and hardcore trials to become full-fledged adults or warriors... like wearing a bullet-ant glove for ten minutes (holy shit) or hunting lions, or old-school bungee. Or hell, even getting a huge ceremonial tattoo. Sure, these examples all include varying degrees danger and pain and all those tasking things that trials generally involve. But this one? It's named after a real life event yet shares no similarities. It mirrors real life yet the only similarity is the physical act. To be honest, delving into this squicks me the hell out since it reads as somewhat unthinking. That may just be me, I don't know.

So I'll just continue on and say this in response to the rest of the paragraph. How on earth is undertaking this particular book's trial (a stubborn anything you can do I can and must do better 'cause I gotta win act on your own body simply in order to win the unspoken command of other tribe members and not die in the process) not selfish? How does it win trust and show they're concerned about the community at large? How does it prove that they can withstand more pain, when so many other physical and mental factors would be at work? How has this ritual withstood the test of time when people could very well have been going too hard/deep and simply bleeding out for the entire existance of these tribes? Wouldn't they have turned around and some point and thought - uh, let's try something else that can also test them to their limits; we're losing too many of our best warriors to bloodloss as they try to overthrow the chief, and we kinda need them all to defend our village...?

Nasuada prays quickly to Gokukara the praying mantis goddess (I'm reminded of one of my Inheritance spork chapters) - any similarities to well known anime characters entirely coincidental? - and makes her own first cut.

She shuddered at the sensation. She wanted to fling the knife away and clutch her wound and scream. She did none of those things. She kept her muscles slack; if she tensed, the process would hurt all the more. And she kept smiling as, slowly, the blade mutilated her body. The cut ended after only three seconds, but in those seconds, her outraged flesh delivered a thousand shrieking complaints, and each one nearly made her stop. As she lowered the knife, she noticed that while the tribesmen still beat upon their drums, she heard naught but the pounding of her pulse.

She is the werecat's mother. Naturally, whilst Nasuada feels horrified instantly, she doesn't even flinch outwardly. Ugh, she's such a robot. Mostly because the writing is extremely robotic. Blade cut her arm? Hmm... nah, I've used that word too many times. Hey, why don't I throw in a 'mutilated' and swap 'arm' for 'body' to really ramp up the tension - ooh, that sounds great! thinks our Super Thesaurus wielding writer without realising that 'mutilated' doesn't very well match with her first light slicing.

Whilst Nasuada's skin keeps screaming at her, Fadawar goes again. It's written in the same fraught tone as if we're meant to be glued to the page, as if we don't know who's going to actually come up on top. Nas goes again:

Nasuada saw it was her turn again. Knowing what to expect only increased her fear. Her instinct for self-preservation—an instinct that had served her well on all other occasions—warred against the commands she sent to her arm and hand. Desperate, she concentrated upon her desire to preserve the Varden and overthrow Galbatorix: the two causes to which she had devoted her entire being. In her mind, she saw her father and Jörmundur and Eragon and the people of the Varden, and she thought, For them! I do this for them. I was born to serve, and this is my service.

Y'see, when main characters find it remarkably easy to prevail against their struggles within the paragraph, readers tend not to care so much. I don't exactly know why all of Paolini's characters fall flat when going through emotional turmoil - oh wait, who am I kidding, of course I know why: because none of them think or behave or respond like actual people. Alagaesians are robots. Mere meat puppets. Sure, she shudders once at the start but it reads as if she's only doing so in response to the thought of how easily the blade could cut her too deeply. Where's the faces and underarms suddenly drenched in sweat? Where's the struggle to keep breathing deeply and not collapse? Shaking legs? Hammering heart? (yes, yes - I'll sort of pay Paolini here as he mentions her pulse going wild...) Accidental vocalisations? C'mon man, why do I feel so removed from this "hardcore", "tense" situation?

A strange lethargy overtook Nasuada. She was so very tired, and cold as well. It occurred to her then that tolerance of pain might not decide the trial, but rather who would faint first from loss of blood.

Telling us she's tired, rather than having her eyelids drooping or fingers shaking; the hairs on her arms and legs standing up, her fingers and toes going cold or even numb. How's about having her experience what it's like to feel faint first-hand (hah, take that alliteration, Paolini) and noticing in horror as her head starts pounding, her vision shrinking from the edges and overtaken in black until she can barely even see through the barest circle of sight yet she can barely lift her head from staring blankly at the floor and Fadawar's shoes? What about that awful tinny 'eeeeeeeeeee' noise starting up faintly in her ears and increasing in volume until even her heartbeat is drowned out? Her mind going absolutely numb until she can barely even string a mental sentence together or even remember what she's doing as the bodily trauma gets worse and worse? Where is it all? Nope; she's still thinking cleanly and clearly that she's concerned about fainting due to loss of blood. Dizzy people are not in the same normal state of mind by this stage.

The row of gaping red slits on the warlord’s arm reminded Nasuada of the gills of a fish, a thought that for some reason seemed incredibly funny to her;she had to bite her tongue to keep from giggling.

This surely can't be the behaviour or mental state of someone who has just opened their arm in five places and has a pool of blood at their feet.

Fad makes his sixth. “Best that, you feckless witch!” he shouted over the noise of the drums, and dropped to one knee.

She did.

I don't even think Paolini cares any longer about this scene. As I am fast losing patience with it... Fadawar moves his attention onto his other arm as rules state you can't make any more than six cuts per arm. Nas goes to do the same but Orrin jumps in and demands they stop. Nasuada jabs the knife in his direction and growls at him not to meddle. Fadawar makes #7 and Nasuada manages to notice that he's clenching his muscles bringing more pain and blood.

She cries out (thank you) from the pain of her own seventh cut. Her pained left arm makes an improper cut and goes deeper and jagged. The razor edge burned like a white-hot wire. Bad simile is bad.

I can’t go on, she thought. I can’t . . . I can’t! It’s too much to bear. I’d rather die. . . . Oh please, let it end! It gave her some relief to indulge in those and other desperate complaints, but in the depths of her heart, she knew she would never give up.

Dance, puppet Nasuada, dance! Hey, here's an idea. How about King Orrin be right all along to have an issue with this trial and the fate of the entire Varden? Have Nasuada lose even though she was determined, even though she said she'd never give up, even though Elva lied and said she'd win (Wyrda!). Wow, an actual main character not getting their way? What sorcery is this? The potential ways the rest of the story and the interactions between characters would go depending on that thrown-for-a-loop twist could make things interesting. If you really wanted Nas to be the Varden's leader during the last book, well; have Fadawar killed trying to save her being abducted or something.

But no. Instead, Fadawar reluctantly prepares for #8. He remained thus as sweat dripped over his eyes and his wounds shed ruby tears.

Bonus points for dripping sweat instantly cancelled out by the awful 'ruby tears'.

Nasuada plays her trump card: His hesitation bolstered Nasuada’s flagging strength. A fierce exhilaration overtook her, transmuting her pain into an almost pleasurable sensation. She matched Fadawar’s effort and then, spurred onward by her sudden, heedless disregard for her own well-being, brought the knife down again. “Best that, ” she whispered.

I don't really have any new words or arguments to bring against this. Sometimes the spirit can be as willing as it likes but the flesh will be too weak. The body is not the instrument of the mind, at least not all the time. There's a reason why torture and the like works. The mind will be too broken in the end to resist so much drawn-out pain. And as for the response of her pain turning to almost-pleasure? Whilst that is a thing that exists, and whilst a viciously masochistic character would be fun to read, one can't just turn pain vs. pleasure on and off as you go.

Finally, Fadawar hesitates enough to seal the deal.

The prospect of having to make two cuts in a row—one to equal the number of Nasuada’s and one to advance the contest—seemed to intimidate Fadawar. He blinked, licked his lips, and adjusted his grip on his knife three times before he raised the weapon over his arm.

His tongue darted out and moistened his lips again.

A spasm distorted his left hand, and the knife dropped from his contorted fingers, burying itself upright in the ground. He picked it up. Underneath his robe, his chest rose and fell with frantic speed. Lifting the knife, he touched it to his arm; it promptly drew a small trickle of blood. Fadawar’s jaw knotted and writhed, and then a shudder ran the length of his spine and he doubled over, pressing his injured arms against his belly. “I submit,” he said.

The drums stopped.

Wow, was not expecting Nasuada to win from the get-go, I was so worried and nervous for the character; said no one ever. The crowd goes wild, and the whole bus claps, Nasuada sits down on her chair, and finally gets those vision-altering symptoms that she should have been getting whilst standing if she was going to get them at all. Farica her handmaid starts bandaging her arms.

“Never before has anyone endured so many cuts in the Trial of the Long Knives. Both you and Fadawar proved your mettle, but you are undoubtedly the victor. We shall tell our people of your achievement, and they shall give you their fealty.”

Yeah, and Eragon-Sue is the best poet in all of elf-land, and Roran kills the most mooks, and Saphira is the most beautiful dragon in all of dragon-land. Aren't these guys so awesome? Don't you just wanna, y'know, name your kids after them?

Trianna approaches in order to heal Nas. Nas declines. “The Trial of the Long Knives requires participants to allow their wounds to heal at their natural pace. Otherwise, we won’t have experienced the full measure of pain the trial entails. If I violate the rule, Fadawar will be declared the victor.”

Have a good time with your infected arms there, Nas. Trianna tries again. "If you had consulted me beforehand, I could have arranged it so that you could lop off an entire limb without the slightest discomfort.”

Isn't that what the laughing soldiers were all about? How are these the good guys, again? Oh, so it's ok when the Varden leader does it, but not Galbatorix? Oh, ok.

In a deadly soft tone, King Orrin said, “But what if you had lost?”

“I could not lose. Even if it meant my death, I never would have allowed Fadawar to gain control of the Varden.”

Grave, Orrin studied her for a long while. “I believe you. Only, is the tribes’ loyalty worth such a great sacrifice? You are not so common that we can easily replace you.”

“The tribes’ loyalty? No. But this will have an effect far beyond the tribes, as you must know. It should help unify our forces. And that is a prize valuable enough for me to willingly brave a host of unpleasant deaths.”

“Pray tell, what would the Varden have gained if you had died today? No benefit would exist then. Your legacy would be discouragement, chaos, and likely ruin.”

Whenever Nasuada drank wine, mead, and especially strong spirits, she became most cautious with her speech and motions, for even if she did not notice it at once, she knew the alcohol degraded her judgment and coordination, and she had no desire to behave inappropriately or to give others an advantage in their dealings with her.

Pain-drunk as she was, she later realized she should have been as vigilant in her discussion with Orrin as if she had imbibed three tankards of the dwarves’ blackberry-honey mead. If she had, her well-developed sense of courtesy would have prevented her from replying so: “You worry like an old man, Orrin. I had to do this, and it is done. ’Tis bootless to fret about it now. . . . I took a risk, yes. But we cannot defeat Galbatorix unless we dance along the very cliff edge of disaster. You are a king. You ought to understand that danger is the mantle a person assumes when he—or she—has the arrogance to decide the fates of other men.”

“I understand well enough,” growled Orrin. “My family and I have defended Surda against the Empire’s encroachment every day of our lives for generations, while the Varden merely hid in Farthen Dûr and leeched off Hrothgar’s generosity.” His robes swirled about him as he turned and stalked out of the pavilion.

“That was badly handled, my Lady,” observed Jörmundur. Nasuada winced as Farica tugged on her bandages.

“I know,” she gasped. “I’ll mend his broken pride tomorrow."

Growling, observing and gasping, oh my...

39 comments

[1]

torylltales
December 27 2016, 00:08:43
I don't even know where to begin with this chapter. I have SO many issues with it.

Did he really have to name it after one of the early atrocities/mass murders of the Nazi party? Really?

I'm surprised the scene in which Saphira magically fixes the dwarves' massive crystal thing wasn't titled "crystal night" just to round it off.

[1A]

torylltales
December 27 2016, 00:32:55 Edited: December 27 2016, 00:33:35
In a deadly soft tone, King Orrin said, “But what if you had lost?”

“I could not lose. Even if it meant my death, I never would have allowed Fadawar to gain control of the Varden.”

Except that if she had died, Fadawar would have won. Refusing to acknowledge the possibility of failure (and the consequences thereof) is not the action of a wise or even basically competent ruler. She should have been court-martialled by the Varden council who apparently have power over her except when it's inconvenient for the plot.

“I understand well enough,” growled Orrin. “My family and I have defended Surda against the Empire’s encroachment every day of our lives for generations, while the Varden merely hid in Farthen Dûr and leeched off Hrothgar’s generosity.” His robes swirled about him as he turned and stalked out of the pavilion.

Dude has a valid point, he's not just being some petulant child. Nasuada's lack of diplomacy is another strike against her ability to adequately rule a rebel army, let alone become queen once Galby is removed.

In her mind, she saw her father and Jörmundur and Eragon and the people of the Varden, and she thought, For them! I do this for them. I was born to serve, and this is my service.

Bullshit. Not once in the entire series does Nasuada act like her duty is to serve her people. Quite the opposite, she acts almost as entitled as Eragon in many scenes, and condones (and probably orders) the burning of crops and houses as the Varden marches through the Empire. Nasuada doesn't give one flying fuck about serving the people, she wants to be the one being served.

[1B]

minionnumber2
December 27 2016, 01:53:24
*googles trial of the long knives*

ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ ಠ_ಠ

I didn't know it was possible, but my opinion of Paolini just got lower. And considering how much bragging he does about his research and his love of words, I can't even give him the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't thinking.

[2]

Anonymous
December 27 2016, 04:37:24
"There's a reason why torture and the like works. The mind will be too broken in the end to resist so much drawn-out pain."

The success rate of torture is actually notoriously bad. When the mind is "broken" people are willing to tell you absolutely anything you want to hear just to make the pain stop and thus it means you can't rely on a single thing they say as being true.

[2A]

Anonymous
December 27 2016, 08:31:08
Ah, I see, thanks; I'll have to amend that.
~Pipedream

[3]

the_bishop8
December 27 2016, 04:58:34
A lot of you guys were talking about Nasuada's hidden knives in part 1 so I guess I'll mention what I found in the next chapter:

"Nasuada drew the four-inch knife from the sheath sewn within the bodice of her chemise."


’Tis bootless to fret about it now. . . . I took a risk, yes. But we cannot defeat Galbatorix unless we dance along the very cliff edge of disaster.

Except was it really a risk if the person who can see the future told you you would succeed? Speaking of which, Nasuada's probably lucky King Orrin didn't actually interfere, because she didn't bother telling him she couldn't lose. She had her allies worried for nothing.

[3A]

Anonymous
December 27 2016, 08:48:42
I should have probably made more of a big deal about this but it's explained shortly at some stage that Elva actually envisioned Nasuada losing and lied to her about the outcome - somehow that meant Nas was able to change her future...?

Yeah that makes no sense to me but eh
~Pipedream

[3A1]

the_bishop8
December 27 2016, 09:10:51
It would have made a little more sense if Nasuada had used Elva's prediction as a reason not to give up at the point Elva says she would have originally given up at. Then when Elva tells her when she would have lost, we can have a scene of Nasuada thinking back on the moment she would have lost, and realizing how much she was relying on Elva's prediction to keep going at that point.

But that doesn't happen.

[3A1A]

minionnumber2
December 27 2016, 16:09:11
Speaking of Elva, isn't she behind the throne chair the entire time? Glad she didn't ruin the ambiance by jumping in the middle of the contest and stopping Nasuada from her contest.

[3A1A1]

the_bishop8
December 27 2016, 17:11:38
She can resist Eragon's spell, but only ever for the convenience of the story.

[3A1A1A]

minionnumber2
December 28 2016, 01:05:12
Still seems like an odd detail to throw in and never acknowledge again. She's allergic to pain and suffering in the same room as a pain contest. There's a set up for some good drama there if Paolini just remembered she was there or treated his characters as characters. Hell, even just leaving her out of the scene is better than saying she's there and never doing anything with her while she's there.

It just plain bugs me when someone puts a character in a scene and has them existing in a stasis field. They don't have to do much, but acknowledge that they're there every once in a while or at least at the end of the scene.

[3B]

theepistler
December 27 2016, 12:53:14
Finally he bothers to explain just how Nas is able to hide a knife in her dress. And we so totally needed to know exactly how long the blade is, so thanks for that, Pao. That really added to the description.

I really wish he'd stop describing things using exact numbers and measurements. It's not evocative, doesn't make things easier to visualise, and is just plain boring to read.

(The Bible does this sort of thing a lot too, as I recall. It's weird).

[3B1]

syntinen_laulu
December 27 2016, 23:27:14
"Nasuada drew the four-inch knife from the sheath sewn within the bodice of her chemise."

Sorry: does not compute. A chemise (a.k.a. shift, smock and a few other words) is a loose garment of light linen, cotton or similar fabric worn next the skin to protect the wearer's skin from stiffer, scratchier, coarser outer garments, and from the corset, if worn. (In the days before dry-cleaning and colourfast, washable woollens, it also had the function of protecting un-launderable outer garments from the wearer's sweat and skin oils.) Chemises could also double as nightdresses.

You can see, if you think about it, that such a garment would just not be solid enough to stitch a sheath in that would hold even a small knife. Imagine the thing banging around your breasts as you washed and got dressed, and how soon it would tear through the fabric. Any garment solid enough and structured enough to have a 'bodice' that you could keep a knife in, isn't a 'chemise'.

[4]

Anonymous
December 27 2016, 04:58:53
"There's a reason why torture and the like works. The mind will be too broken in the end to resist so much drawn-out pain."

Torture actually has notoriously low and dubious success rates. Once you've hurt someone enough to "break" their mind, they'll tell you basically anything they think you want to hear just to stop the pain. Meaning you can't rely on anything they say to be true.

[5]

dinogrrl
December 27 2016, 06:41:54
Ignoring the unfortunate name, this monstrosity makes me think that perhaaaaps Paolini was trying to evoke something like the crocodile skin-cutting rite (WARNING this is a graphic video!!!). But if that was the intent, he missed it by a long shot, as he tends to do with these sorts of things. 8|

[5A]

Anonymous
December 27 2016, 09:40:35
Holy guacamole! What a ritual...

[5A1]

dinogrrl
December 27 2016, 09:51:49
I know! I can't even imagine having all that done all at one time x_x hardcore

[5A1A]

theepistler
December 27 2016, 21:43:20
The guy who did my nose piercing also did decorative scarification, and he told me that clients who come in for that often bring friends to hold them down during the procedure because it's so incredibly painful. I have numerous piercings and tattoos but I've never been that hardcore...

[5A1A1]

Anonymous
December 29 2016, 14:14:12
*Googles "scarification" *

Oh, wow. 8l

That's very daring of those who imprint (or have someone imprint) these decorations on their body. Not to mention that they're in risk of infection caused by unhygienic tools used in the process. Also, do you think CP knows of this? I'm curious.

-TT

[5A1A1A]

theepistler
December 29 2016, 18:35:35
Unlikely. It's a very fringe sort of practise in the Western world, and you're only likely to know about it if you're into body modification the way I am. (I'm quite heavily tattooed and have multiple piercings).

[6]

theepistler
December 27 2016, 21:41:00
Yet another chapter in which Paolini shows that he has no idea that prose and character behaviour/inner monologues should change according to circumstances. The focus should be on the pain, fear and stress Nas and Fadawar are feeling. Instead we get overwrought description and Nas mentally posturing.

Fuck it - it's late and I'm a touch drunk, but I bet I can still do a better job of it.

"Nasuada took a deep breath and pressed the knife into her skin. She hesitated, feeling the sweat already trickling down her back, but everyone was staring expectantly at her and she knew it was too late to back down. She gritted her teeth and pulled the knife sideways, hard. Her skin instantly split open and the blood began to flow, and she gasped at the sharp sting of pain. The breath hissed between her teeth, and she had to force herself not to cry out. Fadawar's own face had paled, but he drew the knife over his own arm, his eyes defiantly fixed on her all the while. Nasuada's heart was pattering frantically, and some inner voice screamed stop, stop now! and yet she sliced the knife across her arm for a second time. The blood was now dripping from her fingertips, and she had begun to feel light-headed. Past the pounding in her ears, she caught the faint sound of King Orrin shouting something or other, but she could not make out the words"

Note that there is no inner monologue to speak of, because people in such situations are pretty much completely incapable of clear and rational thought. Adrenaline is very good at killing that sort of thing stone dead and leaving you to fall back on your more primal instincts.

And these guys never appear again or have any impact on the plot, rendering this scene (like 90% of the scenes in this book) completely pointless. It's just there to make Nas look like a badass.

[6A]

pipedreamno20
December 27 2016, 22:30:35
Your late night tipsy efforts make Nas sound more real and the scene feel far more immediate...

[6A1]

theepistler
December 27 2016, 22:31:34
Why thankye kindly! :D

[6A1A1]

Anonymous
December 28 2016, 00:42:27
Honestly, I'd rather read Epi's "late night tipsy efforts" than the actual substance. The rewrite makes the scene way more interesting due to the way the passage is written to reflect the mood of the situation described. Imo, the largest problem in all Pao's books which drives me to boredom is that the whole thing is written in a describe-it-like-slo-mo manner regardless of the mood conveyed (asides from the self-controversy moral issues and the logic loopholes in worldbuilding).

Or maybe it's because I'm a curt person. I prefer to be straightforward than hobbling around the truth (no offense).

I'm kinda sleep-drunk too as I write this, so a toast to Epi's rendition. *holds up mug filled with hot chocolate*
If anyone wants to add marshmallows in it, I'll be more than glad to have them. ;)

-TT

[6A1A1A]

Anonymous
December 28 2016, 00:46:21
Btw, pipedream, great song. Makes my Christmas this year. (:-)

epi I like your profile picture. Quite reminds me of many ironic things in life. :)

-TT

[6A1A1B]

theepistler
December 28 2016, 00:48:33
Imo, the largest problem in all Pao's books which drives me to boredom is that the whole thing is written in a describe-it-like-slo-mo manner regardless of the mood conveyed

Agreed. He has no freakin' idea how to pace anything appropriately - either individual scenes or entire books.

*offers marshmallows and cinnamon sticks*

[6A1A1B1]

Anonymous
December 28 2016, 09:02:17
On the subject of why he'd choose arm cutting, it's probably that he can't think of a worse kind of harm. He hasn't experienced any. Admittedly this is one of those classic Paolini-isms. Interesting concept of a non-combat duel, totally botched in the execution.

[6A1A1B1A]

theepistler
December 28 2016, 09:28:08
From the way he writes pain and injury, it feels a lot like he's never sustained a real injury or experienced actual severe pain in his life. (I have, unfortunately. Not fun.).
What really gets me about this bit is how much of a ridiculously huge deal everyone makes about the resulting scars. Nas thinks about them all the time, other characters make comments - even Galbatorix remarks on them. It's as if no-one else in this stupid setting has any actual scars or thinks of them as a simple fact of life. Everyone kisses Nas' ass for having these scars like it's a big honking deal to be scarred, period.
It's so stupid.

[6A1A1B1A1]

Anonymous
December 28 2016, 11:59:26
if I'd been writing this I think this chapter would have been near the end of the book, as the culmination of an arc. I'd establish the need to go talk to these people, I'd make it clear that Fadawar is an asshole AND a terrible leader, and then I'd put some actual effort into the world building for this tribal group. Just consider this: hear me out while I offer a possibility.

In this society, rulers are given tests at various points across their lives, starting in childhood. These tests determine physical endurance and mental acuity, and are brutal in nature: fighting a boar with a knife, running an obstacle course blindfolded, and so on. Ajihad was a chief in one of these tribes but left to run the Varden and took his daughter with him so she wouldn't have to face these extremely deadly tests.

So Nasuada shows up and nobody will accept her authority, because she's no more qualified than a child in their eyes, so she has to perform all the tests, consecutively, without failing any. And this is the last one. I'd probably even have Fadawar cheat and exploit some loophole, where he taps out of the contest and Nasuada has to keep going against a fresh opponent. The effect in the end is the same (she brings her people into her army) but we get to see the work as it's done and it's more earned.

What do you guys think of that?

[6A1A1B1A1A]

Anonymous
December 28 2016, 16:17:46
Sounds like an even bigger waste of time. Putting more focus into this plot point isn't the solution. Axing it entirely is. Unless Fadawar has any reason to be in the plot, uniting him and his tribes to fight for the Varden is pointless. The same net effective could be achieved in a single line.

[6A1A1B1A1A1]

Anonymous
December 30 2016, 09:04:29
Fadawar "could" be considered important to the plot since the support of the wandering tribes is what keeps the barden afloat in the rest of the cycle, as Nasu said several chapters later.
But as our companion said, gaining the support with some kind of buildup would not have made it look like the author took the characters and the plot point out of his ass

[6A1A1B1A1B]

theepistler
December 28 2016, 17:10:35
I think that's a great idea and would have worked way way better than what we actually got. As it is Fadawar and Co. come right the fuck out of nowhere with this stupid challenge, then disappear never to be seen again. Rule of thumb: If you want a satisfying payoff, then there needs to be a build-up to said pay-off. You can't just pull a tense climactic scene out of your ass and expect it to work.

[6A1A1B1A1B1]

torylltales
December 28 2016, 21:54:47
Second rule of thumb: if you want an epic confrontation, there has to be a payoff for the victor.

If the "nomad people" had paid a significantly larger role in the book and in the Varden's battles, then the confrontation would have been worth it and Nas could legitimately turn to Orrin and say "see, it was worth the risk".

As it is, the "nomads" basically do nothing. Nas does not get any kind of reward for her effort, the readers don't get any kind of interesting development or twist. This scene literally does not change anything in the plot.

[6A1A1B1A1B1A]

theepistler
December 29 2016, 09:48:07
This scene literally does not change anything in the plot.

So just like 90% of all the other scenes in this book, then. As it is Nas risks outright killing herself for absolutely nothing. She should have just told Fadawar to fuck off.

Fadawar: "I challenge you to the Trial of the Long Knives!"
Nasuada: "The Varden is not run according to your tribal laws and customs, friend. The Council of Elders chooses the leader, not you, and there is no way they would ever recognise the outcome of this ridiculous Trial as a valid reason to replace me with you. Now unless you're prepared to give me what you owe me, the door is right over there."

[6A1A1B1A1B1A1]

Anonymous
December 29 2016, 14:20:14
I prefer the above scene. By a mile. *Snape Approves clap*

-TT

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torylltales
December 29 2016, 14:26:00 Edited: December 29 2016, 14:27:23
"If you wish to file for application as chief executive of the Varden, please ensure that you fill out form 12A/7(i) 'Application to Usurp or Replace Ruler (Peaceful Transition)', and file in triplicate with the Council of Elders and the current sitting ruler. The Council will notify you of the date of your interview."

[6A1A1B1A1B1B]

Anonymous
December 29 2016, 15:42:45
I wonder if Paolini put these nomads in because the Varden in the awful movie were done up as pseudo-African tribal warriors?

[6A1A1B1A1B2]

Anonymous
December 29 2016, 01:13:13
Thank you very much! It wouldn't fix the book but it might have made Nas into more of an actual character.

[6A1A1B1A2]

Anonymous
December 28 2016, 16:15:16
Well scars in general might not be worth commenting on but scars in such a clearly intentionally made pattern would be worth commenting on. Espcially if you held no knowledge of the ritual.


Original repost:


epistler posting in as_sporkive, Sep. 23rd, 2019, 09:00 PM

Brisingr Spork, Part 8: The Trial of the Long Knives (Part Two of Two)